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14 minutes ago, Thebigguy68 said:

 He gives it so he takes it and vice versa. Nothing else is acceptable.

beatings, bombs, coins thrown.

all for a smiley face, some wind ups and a refusal to back down to the bigots. 

all very acceptable. 

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30 minutes ago, Prahakillie said:

beatings, bombs, coins thrown.

all for a smiley face, some wind ups and a refusal to back down to the bigots. 

all very acceptable. 

Looks like you misread or misunderstood my post. Nothing but a bit of shouting and gesticulation is acceptable as a response to Lennon “antics”. The coins and other stuff is unacceptable. Obviously.

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Fans throwing objects will hopefully be caught and punished.

Fans shouting abuse should be dealt with but aren't, and that'll probably never change. 

Lennon needs educated about his touch-line behaviour. It's a regular occurrence. And it's the elephant in the room when it comes to discussing it in the media. 

 

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Might be a bit controversial but I think the SPFL has to look at this too. An old firm game would never be allowed to have a 7.45pm kick off so why is an Edinburgh derby allowed, with fans no doubt heading straight to the pub after work. 

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14 minutes ago, Killieboy1980 said:

Might be a bit controversial but I think the SPFL has to look at this too. An old firm game would never be allowed to have a 7.45pm kick off so why is an Edinburgh derby allowed, with fans no doubt heading straight to the pub after work. 

Do you really think that’s an issue?

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No excuse for what happened. But lying down - FFS. Same with the keeper - bit cringey TBH.

And showing a f**king bunch of bigots in flares chasing each other round Hampden 38 years ago is just lazy. 

Over reaction. 

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2 hours ago, Killieboy1980 said:

Might be a bit controversial but I think the SPFL has to look at this too. An old firm game would never be allowed to have a 7.45pm kick off so why is an Edinburgh derby allowed, with fans no doubt heading straight to the pub after work. 

They are looking it. The new chief exec is considering allowing the purchase of alcohol in football grounds.  Quite incredible. 

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2 hours ago, Candygram for mongo said:

Fans throwing objects will hopefully be caught and punished.

Fans shouting abuse should be dealt with but aren't, and that'll probably never change. 

Lennon needs educated about his touch-line behaviour. It's a regular occurrence. And it's the elephant in the room when it comes to discussing it in the media. 

What a culture we have when a guy is giving a constant torrent abuse because of where he came from and what religion he is, but when he gives them a wee wave back we have people telling him he needs to calm down. 

You could clearly hear him being called a 'f**king fenian bastard' on the commentary last night. 

The elephant in the room is that the two biggest derbies in Scottish fitba are predicated on religious bigotry and intolerance. 

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2 hours ago, Scooby_Doo said:

What a culture we have when a guy is giving a constant torrent abuse because of where he came from and what religion he is, but when he gives them a wee wave back we have people telling him he needs to calm down. 

You could clearly hear him being called a 'f**king fenian bastard' on the commentary last night. 

The elephant in the room is that the two biggest derbies in Scottish fitba are predicated on religious bigotry and intolerance. 

Take all the tribal rivalries away and what is Scottish Football ? One domestically dominant team that can just about beat the lowliest sides in Europe and a bunch of poverty-stricken teams that rely on free transfers and loan deals to supplement a failing youth system. No wonder the media, SFA, SPFL, all ignore the sectarian problem until something like last night happens. It's a convenient smokescreen disguised as rivalry so that we don't look too closely at the state of our domestic game and demand real change from the authorities that have failed us at club and international level.

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11 hours ago, Scooby_Doo said:

What a culture we have when a guy is giving a constant torrent abuse because of where he came from and what religion he is, but when he gives them a wee wave back we have people telling him he needs to calm down. 

You could clearly hear him being called a 'f**king fenian bastard' on the commentary last night. 

The elephant in the room is that the two biggest derbies in Scottish fitba are predicated on religious bigotry and intolerance. 

If all managers and players "gave a wee bit back" the way NL does we would have chaos and would find it difficult to finish any games. Abuse towards anyone at games is wrong, regardless of the nature. I don't shout abuse of any kind at games and I'd expect everyone else to be the same. Managers generally don't goad other fans or players at games and I expect NL to be the same. I feel sorry for Gary Caldwell, he said NL brings it on himself and is getting pelters for it. It's hard to argue that he doesn't bring it on. It's not hard to argue that it shouldn't be brought on. 

I aslo though he was pathetic after the incident. Going down pretending he was injured when he clearly wasn't. He consciously decided to dramatise and add fuel. A 2 game touch line ban for simulation wouldn't go amiss.

If SC did that at Ibrox on Wednesday he'd know that's not the correct behaviour of a manager representing Kilmarnock and Scottish football. And I'm quite sure he'd be getting stick from fans. If so, is he 'wrong' not to give a wee bit back? Of course not; because SC and his colleagues (NL excluded) know how to conduct themselves. 

Look at the incident at RP last season. NL's abuse towards the ref was shocking, you could lip-read what he said. It must've been difficult for the ref not to lash-out or be abusive back. He didn't, because he was there to do a job and had to conduct himself properly. 

That's why I think NL needs educated about his touch-line behaviour. 

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On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 9:34 AM, mathematics said:

What has he ever done that merits the bigot tag?

Spitting on a Rangers scarf and calling their fans Orange bastards. Suppose that could be classed as bigoted behaviour. 

For the record, I quite like him. a love to hate so to speak. There are far too many people in football now with zero personality and that certainly can't be said about Lennon. 

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If it leads to clubs adopting "strict liability" then it could be a turning point in our game, but I worry that the SPFL version would mean that easier targets like Killie would be the first ones charged.

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On 11/1/2018 at 6:39 PM, Killieboy1980 said:

Might be a bit controversial but I think the SPFL has to look at this too. An old firm game would never be allowed to have a 7.45pm kick off so why is an Edinburgh derby allowed, with fans no doubt heading straight to the pub after work. 

They've often had evening Edinburgh derby kick off's, almost always for TV.  Probably has to be in the evening, as Old Firm games get played at Noon.  They were gonna play last seasons New Year OF game on Hogmanay - so maybe an Edinburgh derby played on Halloween is seen as 'low risk' ?

Playing an derby game on the evening of Halloween's just daft scheduling from the SPFL.

 

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12 hours ago, Candygram for mongo said:

. I don't shout abuse of any kind at games and I'd expect everyone else to be the same

Sorry to let you down.

I shout abuse at everybody. 

Especially dougie imrie

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I've been listening to Lennon's news conference throughout the day and I'm trying to work it through in my head.

He says he never had any trouble in England (despite kicking Alan Shearer in the head!) and I've no reason to doubt him. He claims it all started when he, a Catholic from Northern Ireland, signed for Celtic. Not just abuse in Scotland but also in his homeland where he was suddenly persona non grata in the national team after 36 caps. That part is less surprising given the history of the place.

More interesting is Scotland. There have been other Northern Irish Catholics who have played for Celtic surely? In recent-ish times, Paddy McCourt, Niall McGinn, Anton Rogan....maybe not as many as I thought.

Did they get as much hassle as Lennon? Definitely not. The only player I can think of who compared with Lennon in terms of abuse was Boruc, who wasn't averse to winding up the Rangers fans. 

But is it all sectarian with Lennon? From the Govan bigots for sure, but I remember Lennon as player getting dog's abuse at RP whenever he played. And if he gave a gesture to the crowd, some would get absolutely apoplectic. 

Was that sectarian? Or did Lennon get stick because he was lippy, dirty and had a fat arse? I don't think those are entirely irrelevant and his reputation carried into his management career.

Brendan Rodgers is from Northern Ireland and doesn't get anything like the same stick. In fact, I think he is generally well respected not least because he conducts himself in a dignified way. 

As he did as a player, Lennon has had his run-ins with referees as a manager. He always seems to me to be someone who doesn't care who he upsets and doesn't shirk from controversy. He seems to receive praise and admiration for his work as a manager but with the proviso that some controversy is never far away.

Off the top of my head, I can remember his fighting with McCoist. being attacked at Tynecastle, and his more recent run-ins with the authorities.

So why does he attract so much antipathy? Personally, I don't think it's entirely down to his religion and nationality, although these shouldn't be factors at all. I think a lot of it is down to his personality, at least the one he shows in public. I don't think he's that different from a lot of former Rangers players who were unpopular with opposing supporters and have shamed themselves with sectarian acts, but who no longer have a public profile.

Even if he was a Glaswegian Protestant, I think Lennon is the kind of guy who would still get stick because of his personality. It's gone on so long with him now that it's kind of self-perpetuating - he's not going to change his spots and the abuse by supporters is ingrained. Supporters have long memories and, unless Lennon is at your club, fans are probably going to give him abuse. And when he dares to react, it boils over. Unfortunately, it's in his nature to react which doesn't help.

He shouldn't need to but, for his own good, he would be better off managing in England, although he wasn't much good at Bolton!

 

Edited by skygod

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12 hours ago, Candygram for mongo said:

I feel sorry for Gary Caldwell....

He may have a point but you feel sorry for that cowardly c**t?

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6 minutes ago, skygod said:

Off the top of my head, I can remember his fighting with McCoist. being attacked at Tynecastle, and his more recent run-ins with the authorities.

He got death threats when playing for Northern Ireland too.  There's the general abuse he gets for being the panto baddy, then the more sinister sectarian stuff cos of his alleged family background, that's followed his playing career in NI and Scotland.  Lennon was eligible for the Republic, but chose to play for NI, where it all kicked off basically.

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And in the carry on with McCoist, Lennon was the one that started the whole thing by having a go at Diouf.... and still ended up being made the victim!!!

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Obviously being struck by a coin is completely out of order, doesn't matter whether the manager is goading the stand behind him, (as he was), or not. The perpetrator should be charged, and banned from the stadium, and I think most would agree with that. For the record I also think Lennon is a decent manager who was relatively successful with Celtic in Europe, and has now done really well at Hibs, so for that he should be commended.

However, ...in his press conference today he has made the inference that he was struck by the coin, due to, as he puts it 'racism' or in normal terms, sectarianism. It had no connection with either imo. It was an unacceptable overreaction on the part of the coin thrower to his gesticulations and in the heat of the moment, and Hearts having a last minute goal controversially disallowed. Lennon has tarred Scottish football as a whole, (aside from Celtic and Hibs obviously) and indeed wider society as having a problem with him due entirely to his background. He has a valid point admittedly about the reaction he received playing for N.Ireland, that was undoubtedly due to his background and is obviously wrong....Scotland is not N.Ireland though, despite the presence of the gruesome twosome. However, other high profile managers such as Martin O'Neill and Rodgers in particular have not received the same treatment despite having the same background. Therefore it not right that he can tar 'Scotland' with that particular brush. Are there elements of bigotry on both sides? Of course, and it is utterly ridiculous in the 21st century.  If the likes of O'Neill, Rodgers, McCourt, McGinn etc were receiving similar abuse then fair enough but they aren't/don;t seen to be From some elements of the Rangers support, yes, of course, and that is of course totally unacceptable. 

There is a part of Lennon who, as others have said, seems to revel in courting controversy. Again, death threats, graffiti scrawled at Tynecastle, being attacked on the touchline and now struck by a coin is all completely out of order.

Edited by Jedi2

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9 hours ago, skygod said:

(despite kicking Alan Shearer in the head!) 

It was the other way round. Shearer tried to kick his head off! It’s still one of the funniest things ever and shearer didn’t even get a red card. Seriously makes MacKinnon on Saturday look mild! 

every time I watch the video back I think Lennon’s head is going to come flying off and land in the bucket that’s next to him.

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1 hour ago, david mcbeth said:

It was the other way round. Shearer tried to kick his head off! It’s still one of the funniest things ever and shearer didn’t even get a red card.

You’re right, of course. 

Should have checked. 

 

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