Beaker71 Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 3 hours ago, gdevoy said: And the Scottish government gets its money from......................................... Jesus wept, not this old..... block grant s**te again. The so called block Grant (hats off the the British imperial rulers there cracking bit of wordplay), is a PARTIAL refund of the tax Scotland pays the exchequer. The rest is kept for them to piss up against a wall and spend elsewhere. When and not IF sxotland keeps all its tax take it will spend it a damn site more wisely and fairly the the UK. We wont be invading anyone, we wont be spunking it on nukes or on tacmx cuts for the 1%, 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_killie Posted October 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Beaker71 said: Jesus wept, not this old..... block grant s**te again. The so called block Grant (hats off the the British imperial rulers there cracking bit of wordplay), is a PARTIAL refund of the tax Scotland pays the exchequer. The rest is kept for them to piss up against a wall and spend elsewhere. When and not IF sxotland keeps all its tax take it will spend it a damn site more wisely and fairly the the UK. We wont be invading anyone, we wont be spunking it on nukes or on tacmx cuts for the 1%, Post of the week for me Beaker! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallus Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) Apologies if this has been asked before (it probably has) I saw on the news that N Sturgeon is going to ask for powers to have indyref2 in 2020 but I have seen it posted on here many times that Scotland doesn't need to ask for the powers... So why is she asking? Edited October 15, 2019 by Gallus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 The Scottish Government requires a Section 30 order to ensure that the result of any future referendum is legal and binding and the result can't be challenged in the courts. Thought you'd be an expert on constitutional matters anyway? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 8 hours ago, Gallus said: Apologies if this has been asked before (it probably has) I saw on the news that N Sturgeon is going to ask for powers to have indyref2 in 2020 but I have seen it posted on here many times that Scotland doesn't need to ask for the powers... So why is she asking? A referendum is only one route to providing the proof that the Scottish people wish to leave the voluntary union. The issue with referenda is that both sides really need to agree to the question and to accept the outcome. In the UK that is through a section 30 order. As this is a power which was reserved the sxottish government need agreement from the UK parliament to get one. However the standard WM election could also be used to provide that pathway, but given the electorate do not vote in sufficient numbers to discount the pote trial for WM to refuse to let their cash cow go through this method (likely to go through the courts and get properly nasty, therein self defeating their argument about democratic process with the UK) it may drag on somewhat. Ultimately this is a voluntary union, whether unionists or the independence supporters like it or not. The UK does not own Scotland, and if the people wish it we can leave. It's the method of determining that if which is debated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallus Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 @Beaker71 thanks -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclean07 Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 More howling at the moon by the deniers. Pretty much a replica of the brexiteers who place hope and pray fairytales above economic reality. Funnily enough a good wedge of the Nats understand the logic on the EU but not the union. That’s because they can’t as it would destroy their chances of Indy. I’m happy that I’m in the right and not one senior Nat ever challenges the figures. On side note, no matter how much you try to portray New Labour as right wing, they achieved a hundred times more than this puny wee government have. Again it’s just a fact, but it’s no use trying to convince the brainwashed. What a Nat talking shop this has become. Never a single issue raised criticising them and any negative press completely ignored. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, Mclean07 said: More howling at the moon by the deniers. Pretty much a replica of the brexiteers who place hope and pray fairytales above economic reality. Funnily enough a good wedge of the Nats understand the logic on the EU but not the union. That’s because they can’t as it would destroy their chances of Indy. I’m happy that I’m in the right and not one senior Nat ever challenges the figures. Total nonsense. Here's a letter to the Herald from Salmond in 2006, claiming GERS was 'conceived as a political, not a statistical exercise'. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12432586.gers-was-conceived-as-a-political-exercise/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 I thought mclean would’ve had a stab at explaining where our additional £17billion is being spent. Even if we’re paying the entire Foreign Office budget and chipping in a miserly £3billion towards defence, we still have all that deficit to spend. By my calculations we need to build ten Queensferry crossings a year just to keep our deficit at “too poor” levels. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mclean07 said: More howling at the moon by the deniers. Pretty much a replica of the brexiteers who place hope and pray fairytales above economic reality. Funnily enough a good wedge of the Nats understand the logic on the EU but not the union. That’s because they can’t as it would destroy their chances of Indy. I’m happy that I’m in the right and not one senior Nat ever challenges the figures. On side note, no matter how much you try to portray New Labour as right wing, they achieved a hundred times more than this puny wee government have. Again it’s just a fact, but it’s no use trying to convince the brainwashed. What a Nat talking shop this has become. Never a single issue raised criticising them and any negative press completely ignored. f**king comedy gold ya maniac. You do know that the so called deficit is the bit which westminster spends and then decides they spent it in scotland!!! Trying to make a claim that an estimate of an estimated estimate is howling at the moon on a scale unheard of. You need help. Edited October 16, 2019 by Beaker71 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 55 minutes ago, RAG said: Total nonsense. Here's a letter to the Herald from Salmond in 2006, claiming GERS was 'conceived as a political, not a statistical exercise'. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12432586.gers-was-conceived-as-a-political-exercise/ Iain Laing admitted it and is proud of it!! But the likes of McLean are beyond help when it comes to the facts, all he shouts is GERS deniers and sticks his fingers in his ears, then trawls the internet to find posts where the SNP say they accept the numbers. He is so deluded and fat gone he cannot see that this is all tactics and that accepting these as the only numbers available do not make them any more accurate than an estimate of an estimate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 Trying to analyse the independence debate based on a model of two entities where the arguament is about which one is the more dependent is an exercise in futility. You might as well argue about whether your heart is more dependent on your lungs than the other way about. Without either the other is f**ked. The thing is it was Westminster who started this nonsensical arguament and the idiot nats dived right in. Dissolving the union will cause huge headaches fir everyone. My point would be if the UK leaves the EU there will be massive headaches anyway so it would be the ideal time to dissolve the union. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, gdevoy said: Trying to analyse the independence debate based on a model of two entities where the arguament is about which one is the more dependent is an exercise in futility. You might as well argue about whether your heart is more dependent on your lungs than the other way about. Without either the other is f**ked. The thing is it was Westminster who started this nonsensical arguament and the idiot nats dived right in. Dissolving the union will cause huge headaches fir everyone. My point would be if the UK leaves the EU there will be massive headaches anyway so it would be the ideal time to dissolve the union. Only if either is actually dependent or even interdependent. Scotland never has been and never will be dependent on london it England, no matter what bulls**t GERS tries to pass to us. London however or rather the WM part of it has become very dependent on the resources, natural, people, energy that it has been getting from Scotland for 300 odd years. This is where mich more pain or headache will be felt. Scotland will have its tribulations and troubles and a lot of rebuilding to do in terms of the wheels of international and inter company government. But that offers us opportunities for development and jobs as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrogate Peter Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 What's unforgiveable from down here is that the Brexit loons and the Conservative and Unionist party seem to be happy to kow tow to the DUP to keep Ulster in the UK even if it means Scotland leaves. Madness and I couldn't blame any voter North of the border for wanting to leave even though I hope to God it doesn't happen! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcilroy56 Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Mclean07 said: On side note, no matter how much you try to portray New Labour as right wing, they achieved a hundred times more than this puny wee government have. Again it’s just a fact, but it’s no use trying to convince the brainwashed. We get it. Alexander Graham Bell is credited with inventing the telephone at his period in time, Apple have improved it since. Herminie Cadolle is credited with inventing the Bra, Bravissimo have certainly improved it in time. History is history, get over it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 23 minutes ago, Mcilroy56 said: We get it. Alexander Graham Bell is credited with inventing the telephone at his period in time, Apple have improved it since. Herminie Cadolle is credited with inventing the Bra, Bravissimo have certainly improved it in time. History is history, get over it. It's all he has 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclean07 Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 As say, the SNP leadership fully accept the figures and their own Growth Commission uses them as the basis for their centre right vision for an independent Scotland. Only the brainwashed can’t see that. I understand why. A wee observation from here from a left leaning Indy supporting group as well. I know you can never admit these things but deep down you know they’re true. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclean07 Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 On 10/15/2019 at 8:10 AM, Squirrelhumper said: He's been owned on this subject before, you are wasting your time. New Labour introduced the fees to start with (probably to fund bombing Iraq for s**ts and giggles) And as "a better of student" in his words, I had the endowment added to my loan and one which I'm still paying! It’s “better off”. That was a waste ff fees I’ve never been owned. Lab/Lib abolished tuition fees but introduced a small endowment to help poorer student (not to pay fees). The SNP abolished the endowment to gain a cheap political point at the expense of the poor. Left wing’ eh? -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclean07 Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 15 hours ago, Mcilroy56 said: We get it. Alexander Graham Bell is credited with inventing the telephone at his period in time, Apple have improved it since. Herminie Cadolle is credited with inventing the Bra, Bravissimo have certainly improved it in time. History is history, get over it. If only the SNP had a history of achievement, it wouldn’t be so bad. We’re still waiting. Mind you, it’s only because of New Labour they have a Parliament in the first place. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclean07 Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 23 hours ago, Zorro said: I thought mclean would’ve had a stab at explaining where our additional £17billion is being spent. Even if we’re paying the entire Foreign Office budget and chipping in a miserly £3billion towards defence, we still have all that deficit to spend. By my calculations we need to build ten Queensferry crossings a year just to keep our deficit at “too poor” levels. Ask your leadership and the Growth Commission to explain the figures. They understand them. In fact they’re actively planning fifteen years of austerity to get the deficit under control. Although, when speculators destroy the bawbee within days as we have no reserves to speak of it will be a long way back. Best of luck with that one. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 15 minutes ago, Mclean07 said: Ask your leadership and the Growth Commission to explain the figures. They understand them. In fact they’re actively planning fifteen years of austerity to get the deficit under control. Although, when speculators destroy the bawbee within days as we have no reserves to speak of it will be a long way back. Best of luck with that one. It seems we can make £13billion of cuts and it would have no impact on services. Did they use the word austerity btw or was that your interpretation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, Mclean07 said: If only the SNP had a history of achievement, it wouldn’t be so bad. We’re still waiting. Mind you, it’s only because of New Labour they have a Parliament in the first place. Nah it was the Eu who insisted on a Scottish Parliament. It was Labour who botched the job, hamstrung it and redrew some maritime borders into the bargain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_killie Posted October 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Zorro said: Nah it was the Eu who insisted on a Scottish Parliament. It was Labour who botched the job, hamstrung it and redrew some maritime borders into the bargain. The "English" govt redrew the maritime border to take some gas fields into "English" waters in the event of Scottish Independence Think that is correct ain't it Zorro? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Shropshire_killie said: The "English" govt redrew the maritime border to take some gas fields into "English" waters in the event of Scottish Independence Think that is correct ain't it Zorro? It was a UK Labour government, led by Scotsmen, who 'bizarrely' traded the Scots parliament for a good chunk of Scottish waters in the late 1990's. Guys at the helm like for example Robyn Cooke were 100% against a Scottish Parliament, cos they knew it would lead to independence. We should be a bit better than blaiming 'The English' and nuanced in how we approach things, especially after the Brexit debate and the 'othering' of retaimers, leavers, foreigners etc etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_killie Posted October 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 38 minutes ago, RAG said: It was a UK Labour government, led by Scotsmen, who 'bizarrely' traded the Scots parliament for a good chunk of Scottish waters in the late 1990's. Guys at the helm like for example Robyn Cooke were 100% against a Scottish Parliament, cos they knew it would lead to independence. We should be a bit better than blaiming 'The English' and nuanced in how we approach things, especially after the Brexit debate and the 'othering' of retaimers, leavers, foreigners etc etc. That's fair comment. I remember now and couldn't understand how Scots could do that. To be fair I put "English" in inverted commas because whether they be English N Irish Welsh or in this case Scots it was surely England they had in mind when doing this not the UK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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