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Indyref2


Shropshire_killie

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2 hours ago, gdevoy said:

indeed.

No, I believe the hate is directed solely at the SNP.

I believe MacLeans argument would be that he only materiel impact of the SNP on UK politics is to make a Labour government less likely and hence ensure  a permanent Tory one, thus ensuring people here are condmned to permanent squalor. Should the SNP succeed in their stated aim of making Scotland independent then I suspect MacLean is not convinced by Beaker's predictions of money to burn.

So to sum up "the SNP is bad".

My view is "its complicated".

 

As I have said before, those who think we’ll automatically have a progressive government may be sorely disappointed. Scottish populism is quite a possibility. You just don’t call the party “tories” and Bob’s your auntie. There are plenty who find the Tory brand toxic, then express support for classic populist policies. A lot of liberal Nats are touchingly naive. 

Edited by Mclean07
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48 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

As I have said before, those who think we’ll automatically have a progressive government may be sorely disappointed. Scottish populism is quite a possibility. You just don’t call the party “tories” and Bob’s your auntie. There are plenty who find the Tory brand toxic, then express support for classic populist policies. A lot of liberal Nats are touchingly naive. 

I apologise totally for trying to tell people what you may or may not think. I just got annoyed by the implication that if somebody does not like the SNP they don't like Scotland.

That really does ma heid in.

 

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3 hours ago, Bonbon19 said:

Not necessarily. The U.K. isn’t not allowing EU workers just making it more difficult . Like it or not there will always be more opportunities down in the SE of England than up here . I bet that the capital of any country will always attract the bulk of immigrants to it . 

Especially when the policies of the ruling elite is to use resources from elsewhere to deliberately centralise jobs, etc. in that area.

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2 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

So should be about 24k. Hope that helps. Dearie me, Scottish education has certainly dipped. 

Yes but not quite the vast difference you have made out. I think there are various factors why it’s not quite as much and it’s not to do with Scotland being less welcoming.

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52 minutes ago, EKX16 said:

So basically you have a Labour party in Scotland with one MP and have no chance of winning a General election but the Tories are a better option. Jeez.

Said before unionism is a mental illness.  Imagine the scenario today:

Look we've successfully stopped anyone coming to the aid of your colony, which even then almost succeeded.  But you still wont accept our rule so we have now blockaded all your ports and decided anyone of you who owns any part of our land will have it taken off them.  Oh and that's just because your Scottish.

So how about this, we will bribe some of your rulers to agree to close your parliament and move it 400 miles away, where you will be outnumbered 10 to 1, and wont really have any say in what happens.  Oh and you need to send all your money to us to decide what to spend it on.  And when we go to war, cos we like doing that, we will send all your young folk in first.

How does that sound?

Can anyone seriously say theyd vote for this?  This is in effect exactly what you do when you vote Labour, Tory or Lib Dem in Scotland.

Edited by Beaker71
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10 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

Said before unionism is a mental illness.  Imagine the scenario today:

Look we've successfully stopped anyone coming to the aid of your colony, which even then almost succeeded.  But you still wont accept our rule so we have now blockaded all your ports and decided anyone of you who owns any part of our land will have it taken off them.  Oh and that's just because your Scottish.

So how about this, we will bribe some of your rulers to agree to close your parliament and move it 400 miles away, where you will be outnumbered 10 to 1, and wont really have any say in what happens.  Oh and you need to send all your money to us to decide what to spend it on.  And when we go to war, cos we like doing that, we will send all your young folk in first.

How does that sound?

Can anyone seriously say theyd vote for this?  This is in effect exactly what you do when you vote Labour, Tory or Lib Dem in Scotland.

Possibly the most bigoted, maddest, grievance laden, poor us, offensive (to countries that really are oppressed) post ever made. This type of stuff is a total embarrassment to all reasonable Scots and makes possible converts run a mile from this blood and soil garbage.

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26 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

Possibly the most bigoted, maddest, grievance laden, poor us, offensive (to countries that really are oppressed) post ever made. This type of stuff is a total embarrassment to all reasonable Scots and makes possible converts run a mile from this blood and soil garbage.

It's an illustration of historical fact,  just because you've airbrushed it our of your head doesnt make it any less correct.

No grievance,  no bigotry simple illustration of historical facts:

1.  Did the English gentry petition and prevent the king from sending aid to Darian, while they and the Spanish blockaded it to prevent anyone getting in to help.......  Yes

2.  Did they pass the Alien act to remove the rights of land ownership to Scots in England...... YES

3.  Did the english blockade Scots ports after Darien for a number of years in an attempt to cripple us sufficiently to force us to bend our knee...... YES

4.  Did the english parliament (which should have been suspended as ours was which they didnr do btw) then use crown funds to bribe certain Scottish lordships to vote for a union when all the above had failed..... YES.

Not arguable in anyway, so you throw the grievance and bigot card at it.  Absolute tool sir.  The above happened, all.i did was simply ask the question if we were independent just now and england offered us the deal I quoted, would any sane person take it....

I'm assuming you would as you're an absolute clown, other sane people would see it for what it was, colonisation by financial restrictions where brute force had failed for the guys of 400 years.

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5 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

Possibly the most bigoted, maddest, grievance laden, poor us, offensive (to countries that really are oppressed) post ever made. This type of stuff is a total embarrassment to all reasonable Scots and makes possible converts run a mile from this blood and soil garbage.

This is what I find slightly hypocritical from the nationalists , they quote things that happened centuries ago to make their point but don’t like a similar tactic done to them .

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23 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

This is what I find slightly hypocritical from the nationalists , they quote things that happened centuries ago to make their point but don’t like a similar tactic done to them .

No I simply used the historical situation as an illustration of the absurdity of the union,  and the absurdity of the unionists addiction to it.

By asking you the question which was in effect asked 300years ago, based on today.  Would you agree to suspend your parliament and hand total control.of your future to a shared body in which you were out umbered 10 to 1, meaning anything you wanted or needed would only happen if the other side wanted or needed it to.

This isnt bringing up the past, but using history as it should be to mearn from the howling mistakes and prevent them from recurring.

You also.need to get away from calling me or other narionalists, most indeed if not all arent in the SNP, we are independence supporters, we want to be able to make our own decisions about how our country is governed and managed for our benefit.   This is an entirely natural thing and in no way is the EU a similar entity to the UK.  Christ even the US isnt anywhere near the same as the UK.

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5 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

It's an illustration of historical fact,  just because you've airbrushed it our of your head doesnt make it any less correct.

No grievance,  no bigotry simple illustration of historical facts:

1.  Did the English gentry petition and prevent the king from sending aid to Darian, while they and the Spanish blockaded it to prevent anyone getting in to help.......  Yes

2.  Did they pass the Alien act to remove the rights of land ownership to Scots in England...... YES

3.  Did the english blockade Scots ports after Darien for a number of years in an attempt to cripple us sufficiently to force us to bend our knee...... YES

4.  Did the english parliament (which should have been suspended as ours was which they didnr do btw) then use crown funds to bribe certain Scottish lordships to vote for a union when all the above had failed..... YES.

Not arguable in anyway, so you throw the grievance and bigot card at it.  Absolute tool sir.  The above happened, all.i did was simply ask the question if we were independent just now and england offered us the deal I quoted, would any sane person take it....

I'm assuming you would as you're an absolute clown, other sane people would see it for what it was, colonisation by financial restrictions where brute force had failed for the guys of 400 years.

1. Don't care, when was this?

2. Don't care, when was this?

3. Don't care, when was this?

4. Don't care, when was this?

What century are you living in? Is it relevant? Have you run out off pills?

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52 minutes ago, Bhamkillieken said:

1. Don't care, when was this?

2. Don't care, when was this?

3. Don't care, when was this?

4. Don't care, when was this?

What century are you living in? Is it relevant? Have you run out off pills?

Exactly.

What I want to know is did the majority of the Scottish population vote for prescription charges, fees to claim unfair dismissal or privatizing everything in sight?

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46 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

Exactly.

What I want to know is did the majority of the Scottish population vote for prescription charges, fees to claim unfair dismissal or privatizing everything in sight?

You know the answer to that, but the historical aspect of this has played a massive role in the current situation. 

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2 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

No I simply used the historical situation as an illustration of the absurdity of the union,  and the absurdity of the unionists addiction to it.

By asking you the question which was in effect asked 300years ago, based on today.  Would you agree to suspend your parliament and hand total control.of your future to a shared body in which you were out umbered 10 to 1, meaning anything you wanted or needed would only happen if the other side wanted or needed it to.

This isnt bringing up the past, but using history as it should be to mearn from the howling mistakes and prevent them from recurring.

You also.need to get away from calling me or other narionalists, most indeed if not all arent in the SNP, we are independence supporters, we want to be able to make our own decisions about how our country is governed and managed for our benefit.   This is an entirely natural thing and in no way is the EU a similar entity to the UK.  Christ even the US isnt anywhere near the same as the UK.

I agree it’s a good idea to look at this question based on more current thoughts and times . What would happen to a virtually bankrupt and sectarian divided Scotland if the rest of the U.K. our nearest neighbour didn’t bail us out ?  I’d very much doubt the EU would want to bail out a non member state . Who else would come to our rescue ?

I also agree that it’s wrong of me to call you a nationalist , and I’ll use the independence term from now on. in a similar mode could you stop calling English people nationalists too . 

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1 minute ago, Bonbon19 said:

I agree it’s a good idea to look at this question based on more current thoughts and times . What would happen to a virtually bankrupt and sectarian divided Scotland if the rest of the U.K. our nearest neighbour didn’t bail us out ?  I’d very much doubt the EU would want to bail out a non member state . Who else would come to our rescue ?

I also agree that it’s wrong of me to call you a nationalist , and I’ll use the independence term from now on. in a similar mode could you stop calling English people nationalists too 

Never have called english people nationalists.

Also.its factually incorrect to say Scotland was virtually bankrupt, I know it's a common misconception and an oft used statement by unionists to justify the union.  But it is incorrect, this is why the e English parliament still needed the grade blockade and the Alien act, and even then Scotlands input paid England war debts for their war with France. 

If we are too look to history let's look at the facts and not a flowery unionised version which isn't right.

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1 hour ago, Beaker71 said:

Never have called english people nationalists.

Also.its factually incorrect to say Scotland was virtually bankrupt, I know it's a common misconception and an oft used statement by unionists to justify the union.  But it is incorrect, this is why the e English parliament still needed the grade blockade and the Alien act, and even then Scotlands input paid England war debts for their war with France. 

If we are too look to history let's look at the facts and not a flowery unionised version which isn't right.

I apologise you only called Thatcher and Johnson nationalists . Wouldn’t it be better to use the term Tory ? 
 

By all accounts the Darian project did in fact cause Scotland to become bankrupt ,”  between one quarter and one half of all the funds available in Scotland “ were used to fund this project . That is an indisputable fact according to all reports . How it came about is immaterial. 

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28 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

I apologise you only called Thatcher and Johnson nationalists . Wouldn’t it be better to use the term Tory ? 
 

By all accounts the Darian project did in fact cause Scotland to become bankrupt ,”  between one quarter and one half of all the funds available in Scotland “ were used to fund this project . That is an indisputable fact according to all reports . How it came about is immaterial. 

Scotland was by no means bankrupt, it would've been hard and indeed it was, but the country was very much alive, kicking and getting itself back up working when the English passed the alien act and blockaded the ports to try and utterly cripple us.  Indeed of ot was destitute how did it pay to get into.the union this is also fact.

Thatcher was an english nationalist, she admitted it, Boris is interested in what's good for boris, an absolute opportunistic chancer with zero scruples and less morals.

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19 hours ago, gdevoy said:

Exactly.

What I want to know is did the majority of the Scottish population vote for prescription charges, fees to claim unfair dismissal or privatizing everything in sight?

No, but they would have none of them and a hell of a lot less when they lost the pooling subsidy and had to get the deficit down to EU standards. BIG cuts.

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