Jump to content

Indyref2


Shropshire_killie

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, EKX16 said:

Here's a quote from Gordon Brown in August 2014 "Within two years the United kingdom will be a federal state with Scotland's Parliament in Holyrood having equal status with Westminster" 

2019 still waiting.

Cameron forced the question into a binary choice between the status quo and full separation. He thought the Nats would get annihilated  but he nearly list. 45% voted for full independence and 55% did not. Cameron took that as an endorsement of the status quo and now the Tories are trying to fend off indyref 2. They will lose.

The same no surrender binary approach to the EU has got us into another dog's breakfast over Brexit. It seems the ruling class have a real flair for train crashes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/16/2019 at 3:33 PM, gdevoy said:

Cameron forced the question into a binary choice between the status quo and full separation. He thought the Nats would get annihilated  but he nearly list. 45% voted for full independence and 55% did not. Cameron took that as an endorsement of the status quo and now the Tories are trying to fend off indyref 2. They will lose.

Cameron didn’t take it as an endorsement for the status quo. He took it as proof the People of Scotland were too cowed and servile to stand against him. Hence the Vow being thrown on a bonfire and EVEL replacing it - effectively stopping the possibility of a Scottish constituency ever being home to the prime minister again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/wpPSYCLiZy/election-2019-nicola-sturgeon

Both of us are driven by a passion to make sure the devastation that Margret Hilda Thatcher wreaked on communities all over Scotland can never happen again. Labour endorsed Tonee Blair who was basically a Thatcher apologist and that IMO is a major factor in the evisceration of Labour from Scotland.

We both share the same passion but she is absolutely convinced the only strategy is to separate Scotland from Westminster. I have to say the whole Brexit fiasco and the Tory Party's choice of the Public School Boy Idiot as leader are not doing anything to persuade me otherwise.   

 

 

Edited by gdevoy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/wpPSYCLiZy/election-2019-nicola-sturgeon

Both of us are driven by a passion to make sure the devastation that Margret Hilda Thatcher wreaked on communities all over Scotland can never happen again. Labour endorsed Tonee Blair who was basically a Thatcher apologist and that IMO is a major factor in the evisceration of Labour from Scotland.

We both share the same passion but she is absolutely convinced the only strategy is to separate Scotland from Westminster. I have to say the whole Brexit fiasco and the Tory Party's choice of the Public School Boy Idiot as leader are not doing anything to persuade me otherwise.   

That BBC articles title ‘Can NS deliver on independence’ has nothing at all do with the general election. Absolutely f. all.

BBC know fine well, everyone in Scotland hated Thatcher, cant be bothered with Blair after Iraq, plus austerity and Brexits not too popular here either. 
Folk already vote SNP have done for a decade solidly at every election, so only thing BBC can do is conflate EVERYTHING in Scottish politics ALL the time, with indy, preying on folks fear of change.  Change is inevitable after Brexit, but having the power of change in non old Etonian hands is just not the British way.  As joanne Lamont said in 2014n the ‘scots are not genetically programmed to make decisions’.  Different story if you’re a english toff in the tory party  

Fear or suspicion of independence being the last bastion of doubt keeping the UK together - along of course with that uber ‘staunch’ unionist granny voting block. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

So what happened?

Wee Nicola assured us that she would have permission for Indyref2 before the end of 2019. Seems to have al futtered out like a damp squib. Totally slipped off everybody's agenda.

BoJo and chums can now focus everybody's attention on the "trial of the century".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

So what happened?

Wee Nicola assured us that she would have permission for Indyref2 before the end of 2019. Seems to have al futtered out like a damp squib. Totally slipped off everybody's agenda.

BoJo and chums can now focus everybody's attention on the "trial of the century".

Oh dear, you for real here?

Perhaps the Scottish government have decided to play a longer game, waiting for Scotland and her troops to be dragged into another illegal war, Brexit to bite hard and then make the decision a simple one.

Perhaps Bojo hasn't formally responded to the section 30 order request, despite his bluster pish in WM?

Perhaps your just trolling?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

Oh dear, you for real here?

Perhaps the Scottish government have decided to play a longer game, waiting for Scotland and her troops to be dragged into another illegal war, Brexit to bite hard and then make the decision a simple one.

Perhaps Bojo hasn't formally responded to the section 30 order request, despite his bluster pish in WM?

Perhaps your just trolling?

Just wanted "stir up a bit of debate" as it's been awfae quiet on here. :)

Seems like BoJo could make failing to formally respond his formal response. 

Another illegal war seems to be well worth the risk if it means Donald can get himself re-elected.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, gdevoy said:

More bagpipe blowing, tartan drapped flag waving again today in Glasgow.

Jings BoJo must be really s**tting himself now, eh? 

I despair of this emotional hosecrap.

Again, do you have an aversion to flags and symbols in general or just our national flag in particular?

Support for a thing comes in all shapes and sizes, and these marches are powerful rallying points that folk can come together and show support with ...but carry on with your cheap judgemental denigration.

I'm not sure you could be convinced of anything, you're so sure cock sure you know it all already. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

Yeah cause the flags and the protests really work out well in other places. Like the Middle East fir example.

Irrelevant, and avoiding the question again.

Folk have stood behind flags and banners since time immemorial, and for a multitude of causes. But the one you sniff at, the only one you don't think is important or worthy of respect is your own country's?

That says it all really!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/11/2020 at 10:26 PM, gdevoy said:

More bagpipe blowing, tartan drapped flag waving again today in Glasgow.

Jings BoJo must be really s**tting himself now, eh? 

I despair of this emotional hosecrap.

C0DEB90C-0973-4F67-B6C2-B274F8E9A24F.jpeg.8de195b565b6f0b9ca0082293e0eec4f.jpeg
 

BD2A0985-BB14-450D-98ED-5DBAE0DC3EA1.jpeg.7e17190b1683831754f56f4ba86938b7.jpeg

4F0B25A7-8504-4CC7-94E0-6994235F3028.jpeg.0cf8246f77008a11d47a704ba5450503.jpeg

A9CB6F28-4AE3-4383-A418-81B1B250EFBF.jpeg.f225d27a1f49bf6139d0c6831fc18f65.jpeg

The lovely people who promise their Scotland will be an open, democratic, progressive, tolerant society. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

The lovely people who promise their Scotland will be an open, democratic, progressive, tolerant society. 

You can be a tolerant person, but still intolerant of c**ts.

If you are struggling with that:
Would you describe yourself as a tolerant person? I think you would say "Yes". 
If so, then do you tolerate racists/bigots/rapists? I think you'd say "No".

Edited by undefined
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

The lovely people who promise their Scotland will be an open, democratic, progressive, tolerant society. 

As you drive off the Ferry at Larne you find union Jacks hanging out of every window as you drive along. Then, depending upon your choice of route, you can find red with and blue painted cobblestones or green orange and white ones.

Because nothing says "open" and "inclusive" quite like a spot of flag waving. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

As you drive off the Ferry at Larne you find union Jacks hanging out of every window as you drive along. Then, depending upon your choice of route, you can find red with and blue painted cobblestones or green orange and white ones.

Because nothing says "open" and "inclusive" quite like a spot of flag waving. 

:31:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mclean07 said:

C0DEB90C-0973-4F67-B6C2-B274F8E9A24F.jpeg.8de195b565b6f0b9ca0082293e0eec4f.jpeg
 

BD2A0985-BB14-450D-98ED-5DBAE0DC3EA1.jpeg.7e17190b1683831754f56f4ba86938b7.jpeg

4F0B25A7-8504-4CC7-94E0-6994235F3028.jpeg.0cf8246f77008a11d47a704ba5450503.jpeg

A9CB6F28-4AE3-4383-A418-81B1B250EFBF.jpeg.f225d27a1f49bf6139d0c6831fc18f65.jpeg

The lovely people who promise their Scotland will be an open, democratic, progressive, tolerant society. 

I was on the march for a couple of hours on Saturday before heading off to the rugby at Scotstoun

What I experienced was a very positive, friendly and almost carnival atmosphere in a very large crowd ignoring the cold and pissing rain. All age groups and social demographics in attendance - the complete antithesis of the rabble that Tory MSPs like to characterise
 

i too saw a couple of these sweary anti-Tory posters largely held up by younger marchers, but they were very much in the minority.While not condoning them they represent in my view a growing hostility to -and alienation from - a nasty Tory government completely lacking in compassion and concern for large swathes of the population. If there had been an anti War demonstration in London or Manchester on the same day you would see hundreds of the same thing too, rather than taking this as a picture of what Indy Scotland will look like .
These few banners  reflect an alienation from a nasty government in the here and now. The mood and atmosphere on these marches is positive, friendly and inclusive. Within a large gathering of 80000 people you will always manage to pick out stuff to suggest otherwise. 
 

I actually agree with gdevoy that marches will have no impact whatever on Boris and his ilk - it was barely even mentioned in the unionist press - but they are very important for morale within the pro-independence movement. Passers by who are perhaps not interested in politics also see large numbers of positive happy walkers and it can stimulate a realisation for them that there is a much bigger appetite for independence than is projected by a hostile media

i do accept however that a march like this will be a pain in the arse if you are stuck in your car next to a road that is blocked off - the same as I feel every time I am caught behind an orange walk in Paisley or Glasgow

anyway.... a quick check to see if we have signed anyone and back to work.  

bw 

Edited by Cheviotstag
Typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

These marches are not meant for Bozo and his pals, but then that's already known, ain't it chaps.

1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

As you drive off the Ferry at Larne you find union Jacks hanging out of every window as you drive along. Then, depending upon your choice of route, you can find red with and blue painted cobblestones or green orange and white ones.

Because nothing says "open" and "inclusive" quite like a spot of flag waving. 

They wave flags and banners at Labour Party conferences and marches of all description, why's that if they have no effect?

They fly flags at Scotland games, we've waved flags when Killie are at Hampden ... if they have no effect, maybe we should just turn out in grey overcoats with grey bunnets and keep quiet to watch grey players in grey strips watching grey fitba! So why should the fans bother if they have no effect?

Cmon, at least answer one question.

Edited by Scooter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Scooter said:

So why should the fans bother if they have no effect?

At a football match it's about emotion. You want your emotion to be transferred to the guys on the park. That can be a very +ve thing in tight games. Although it can be counter productive.

With the independence thing these marches are just preaching to the converted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Cheviotstag said:

I was on the march for a couple of hours on Saturday before heading off to the rugby at Scotstoun

What I experienced was a very positive, friendly and almost carnival atmosphere in a very large crowd ignoring the cold and pissing rain. All age groups and social demographics in attendance - the complete antithesis of the rabble that Tory MSPs like to characterise
 

i too saw a couple of these sweary anti-Tory posters largely held up by younger marchers, but they were very much in the minority.While not condoning them they represent in my view a growing hostility to -and alienation from - a nasty Tory government completely lacking in compassion and concern for large swathes of the population. If there had been an anti War demonstration in London or Manchester on the same day you would see hundreds of the same thing too, rather than taking this as a picture of what Indy Scotland will look like .
These few banners  reflect an alienation from a nasty government in the here and now. The mood and atmosphere on these marches is positive, friendly and inclusive. Within a large gathering of 80000 people you will always manage to pick out stuff to suggest otherwise. 
 

I actually agree with gdevoy that marches will have no impact whatever on Boris and his ilk - it was barely even mentioned in the unionist press - but they are very important for morale within the pro-independence movement. Passers by who are perhaps not interested in politics also see large numbers of positive happy walkers and it can stimulate a realisation for them that there is a much bigger appetite for independence than is projected by a hostile media

i do accept however that a march like this will be a pain in the arse if you are stuck in your car next to a road that is blocked off - the same as I feel every time I am caught behind an orange walk in Paisley or Glasgow

anyway.... a quick check to see if we have signed anyone and back to work.  

bw 

I applaud your determination and commitment in the face of some really s**t weather, but I'm at a loss to see what advantage it buys the independence movement.

Regarding the 4 letter nonsense in the pictures above the MSM will always focus on whatever backs the establishment line.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

I applaud your determination and commitment in the face of some really s**t weather, but I'm at a loss to see what advantage it buys the independence movement.

Even blind a man could feel the presence of 80,000 folk marching, you dont actually need to see that many people to know they are there!  Viability and presence is what these marches bring, a bit like Alistair Jack being trotted out on telly to claim they’ll be no indy ref for a lifetime. They’ll trot out more Tory MPs to follow the same line and these marches will only get a lot bigger. 80,000 folk in rough weather in January 2020 could be multiplied a few times over by say summer of 2021 or 22. Ive never been to one of these marches - like most people who voted YES. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

I'm at a loss to see what advantage it buys the independence movement.

I wasn't at the march on Saturday but have attended a couple in the past.  When you're there, you tend to speak to various strangers being inadvertently caught up in the march.  Anyone I've spoken to tended to have the similar messages of encouragement or support.

"It's great intit" / "Wow, there's so many people" / "Ah don't usually bother wae politics (I'm too busy making the weans their cereal), but this is great". 

Additionally, from the front to the back of the march, there are usually so many different groups, all supporting indy for various reasons.  Labour for Independence, Tories For YES, Greens, SSP.

Like it or not, support for independence is on a knife edge.  A labour voter, spotting a Labour for Indy banner may have their head turned.  Undoubtedly there'll be plenty of people who simply aren't engaged who see these crowds and think: "Wow, I want to be a part of that"

Although, a tory voter, spotting a Tories for YES banner would probably self combust.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, undefined said:

You can be a tolerant person, but still intolerant of c**ts.

If you are struggling with that:
Would you describe yourself as a tolerant person? I think you would say "Yes". 
If so, then do you tolerate racists/bigots/rapists? I think you'd say "No".

I oppose Tory governments, and have done all my life, but I would like to think I object to them in a civilised manner and not use the crude language of the gutter. I think it demeans the people themselves and their cause. I may be old fashioned, but what an example to children on that march and elsewhere. Believe you me, there are racists in the SNP, I’ve met them, it’s full of anti English bigots and their ex leader is about to appear on trial for attempted rape, so I wouldn’t be too precious. Tories are political opponents and at least a quarter of your fellow countrymen will still be tories and Scottish and still there in any Indy Scotland. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, undefined said:

You can be a tolerant person, but still intolerant of c**ts.

If you are struggling with that:
Would you describe yourself as a tolerant person? I think you would say "Yes". 
If so, then do you tolerate racists/bigots/rapists? I think you'd say "No".

Are you trying to conflate the BBC with racists/bigots/rapists?

Interesting.

Is it everyone that disagrees with your point of view that is put in this box?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...