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Addio Alessio


the doomed

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Just now, Guff92 said:

He’s no going anywhere. He’s on a 3 year contract. Let’s judge him in 6 months once he’s got the players in and the system he wants. And any players that aren’t happy with his system can do one. He’s the manager at the end of the day. We have a good solid defence if this keeper is any good. We still have power and dicker. Add some attacking flair and I would still be confident going into the rangers game. If Millar comes in i’d like to try him upfront, that’s where he plays for Liverpool. His pace would cause all sorts of problems, next to Brophy would be ideal.

This seems pretty reasonable. 

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1 minute ago, the doomed said:

Yes. Not in every scenario, but in this scenario, yes.  

Are you basing this just on the two competitive games or are there other issues that concern you regarding Alessio?

If the latter, did you express this opinion prior to the Nomads game? It all seems a bit knee-jerk from someone who has a decent knowledge of the game. 

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6 minutes ago, Guff92 said:

He’s no going anywhere. He’s on a 3 year contract. Let’s judge him in 6 months once he’s got the players in and the system he wants. And any players that aren’t happy with his system can do one. He’s the manager at the end of the day. We have a good solid defence if this keeper is any good. We still have power and dicker. Add some attacking flair and I would still be confident going into the rangers game. If Millar comes in i’d like to try him upfront, that’s where he plays for Liverpool. His pace would cause all sorts of problems, next to Brophy would be ideal.

Totally disagree. If AA puts in place a system or more importantly an environment that Alan Power, Greg Taylor and Stuart Findlay, for example, are unhappy with, and he can’t manage that situation, it’s not the players I want to see leave.

Them just not fancying it would be a different matter.

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42 minutes ago, fraz65 said:

48 hours ago he was the best manager in the SPL, with contacts throughout Europe, being praised by del Piero, and we were the envy of the other clubs.

One bad result later and he should be immediately sacked. 

I'm not sure that a Game of Thrones-style approach is the best long-term business plan for our club. 

BB claimed he was the best  I had/have my own misgivings. No experience as a head coach. No knowledge of the league. Lack of the language. Clearly heads were turned by his connections. I don't think it's the best business plan to scrap a working formula ! A new style , players to fit that style,  to then discover 3 months from now it was a mistake. Trying to pay off an entire backroom team, and left with his recruits and back 18 months 

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26 minutes ago, Guff92 said:

He’s no going anywhere. He’s on a 3 year contract. Let’s judge him in 6 months once he’s got the players in and the system he wants. And any players that aren’t happy with his system can do one. He’s the manager at the end of the day. We have a good solid defence if this keeper is any good. We still have power and dicker. Add some attacking flair and I would still be confident going into the rangers game. If Millar comes in i’d like to try him upfront, that’s where he plays for Liverpool. His pace would cause all sorts of problems, next to Brophy would be ideal.

A post from Guff92 I can get fully on board with, there's a first. The Steve Clarke's of this world are few and far between. The players need to work WITH the manager and not down tools because they don't fancy it or his tactics of whatever the f**k. 

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20 minutes ago, NorfolkG said:

Totally disagree. If AA puts in place a system or more importantly an environment that Alan Power, Greg Taylor and Stuart Findlay, for example, are unhappy with, and he can’t manage that situation, it’s not the players I want to see leave.

Them just not fancying it would be a different matter.

We don’t know if he’s not “managing the situation” though do we? Only he and the players will know exactly what’s going on behind the scenes. The scary thing is had Greg Taylor took his couple of chances we’d have won the game and there would probably be no meltdown. We didn’t play all that bad, just didn’t have a cutting edge which we all knew would happen going into the game with the current squad. We were never going to score a lot of goals against a team setup like that. 

If Steve Clarke was the manager we’d have gone through last night but probably by a scoreline of 0-0. Even he wouldn’t have been able to set up that starting 11 in a way to score goals. We simply don’t have the players yet and like I’ve said I’d rather we signed the RIGHT players than just go sign an attacker for the sake of it. 

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32 minutes ago, Guff92 said:

He’s no going anywhere. He’s on a 3 year contract. Let’s judge him in 6 months once he’s got the players in and the system he wants.

Cant argue with most of this but based on what I have seen and heard so far I personally will be pleasantly astonished if AA is not getting regular weekly abuse from the stands in 6 months time as we battle to get away from relegation trouble.

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22 minutes ago, fraz65 said:

Are you basing this just on the two competitive games or are there other issues that concern you regarding Alessio?

If the latter, did you express this opinion prior to the Nomads game? It all seems a bit knee-jerk from someone who has a decent knowledge of the game. 

Prior to and after his appointment I expressed significant concern to various people (some of who are frequently posters on here). Those concerns have not gone away.

On my original post I mentioned warning signs being out there for a (relatively) long time. More are popping up. Last nights game simply illustrated the impact of some of the problems.

Re last week's game - I didn't think the performance was actually too much to be concerned with. 

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1 minute ago, the doomed said:

Prior to and after his appointment I expressed significant concern to various people (some of who are frequently posters on here). Those concerns have not gone away.

On my original post I mentioned warning signs being out there for a (relatively) long time. More are popping up. Last nights game simply illustrated the impact of some of the problems.

Re last week's game - I didn't think the performance was actually too much to be concerned with. 

Hi Doomed, nice to hear the voice of reason among the eternal optimists.

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6 minutes ago, the doomed said:

Prior to and after his appointment I expressed significant concern to various people (some of who are frequently posters on here). Those concerns have not gone away.

On my original post I mentioned warning signs being out there for a (relatively) long time. More are popping up. Last nights game simply illustrated the impact of some of the problems.

Re last week's game - I didn't think the performance was actually too much to be concerned with. 

Add 2 goals to last nights performance and what would be there difference in the 2 games? We played the exact same in both games. 

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51 minutes ago, NorfolkG said:

I was also lukewarm, preferring Hughes.

John Hughes? He sounds more Slovakian than Scottish and every player is either "that boy" or "the (insert position) from (insert club)" and he still usually gets it wrong. John Hughes should be unemployed from radio never mind managing a bloody football club. I can't imagine him managing a sentence rationally never mind Kilmarnock. 

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3 minutes ago, Guff92 said:

Add 2 goals to last nights performance and what would be there difference in the 2 games? We played the exact same in both games. 

Its not about playing the same, its about achieveing the objective for that match. 

Last week was always going to be tough, first game of season, for new manager, in europe, small ground, 11 behind the ball, expectation etc. 1-1 was good enough last week the late goal was a huge bonus. 

Last night was then about managing the game. About taking control of the tie. Settling and getting a goal. Keeping it tight at the back. Moving the ball quicker. Creating more opportunities than we did the previous week. We failed. 

The team didnt have the direction to see their way through the tie. Game management went out the door. 

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10 minutes ago, the doomed said:

Its not about playing the same, its about achieveing the objective for that match. 

Last week was always going to be tough, first game of season, for new manager, in europe, small ground, 11 behind the ball, expectation etc. 1-1 was good enough last week the late goal was a huge bonus. 

Last night was then about managing the game. About taking control of the tie. Settling and getting a goal. Keeping it tight at the back. Moving the ball quicker. Creating more opportunities than we did the previous week. We failed. 

The team didnt have the direction to see their way through the tie. Game management went out the door. 

I do agree with what your saying but We don’t have the players at the moment to create opportunities. The players in the middle took it upon themselves to make the easy sideway pass instead of trying something different. Not one of our midfielders took a shot at goal against a part time team. That’s shocking in itself. Rory didn’t help matters by coming deep all the time or standing next to the guy with the ball. Everyone around me was screaming at him just to make a run, do something, stretch them a bit. No, nothing. 

I just want to move on and give the guy a chance. There’s no point moaning and moaning, he isn’t going anywhere. It will only get worse if we don’t at least try to give him the support.

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1 hour ago, the doomed said:

Prior to and after his appointment I expressed significant concern to various people (some of who are frequently posters on here). Those concerns have not gone away.

On my original post I mentioned warning signs being out there for a (relatively) long time. More are popping up. Last nights game simply illustrated the impact of some of the problems.

Re last week's game - I didn't think the performance was actually too much to be concerned with. 

I would have had a lot more respect for this viewpoint if you had posted these concerns prior to Thursday night.

Expressing them now just looks like the usual knee jerk melodrama that we see on here after every adversity. 

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38 minutes ago, Guff92 said:

I do agree with what your saying but We don’t have the players at the moment to create opportunities. The players in the middle took it upon themselves to make the easy sideway pass instead of trying something different. Not one of our midfielders took a shot at goal against a part time team. That’s shocking in itself. Rory didn’t help matters by coming deep all the time or standing next to the guy with the ball. Everyone around me was screaming at him just to make a run, do something, stretch them a bit. No, nothing. 

I just want to move on and give the guy a chance. There’s no point moaning and moaning, he isn’t going anywhere. It will only get worse if we don’t at least try to give him the support.

We dont have players to create opportunities cause he /we haven't signed anyone.

The central midfielders make sideways passes because that's what they do. That's their game. They excelled at it in the past 2 seasons. Neither Dicker or Power are creators. They typically get the ball and give it to others to do that. That's why it was obvious he needed to sign a 10 or another forward quickly.

Dicker and Power dont shoot. Except Powers goal v St Mirren. Burke had a few including one when through on the keeper in the first half. Typically however our current midfielders aren't a goal threat. He played Dicker really deep to push the full backs on and Nomads sussed it and snuffed it out. Makrini by his own admission wasnt fit but he kept him on long after his legs had gone.

Rory came deep cause we didnt have players who could find him with a pass when he stayed up front. And I dont buy he did nothing. But we know his limitations. Again a hard working player who supports other creative players.

Whether we support Alessio or not if he continues to try and play what he calls more expansive football with our current squad who've been drilled for 2 years to do pretty much the opposite ie sit in and counter cause that's what they're best at, then it's not going to end well.

Qualification would have earned us another c £400k in Europa league payments and gate receipts. That would have paid the wages of a couple of quality players. That's a big blow.

What I dont understand is why he felt the need to change our style of play 2 games into a season when he hasn't brought in new personnel to either play the way he wants or to even enable us to play effectively how we did last year. No wonder the jury is out on Alessio at the moment.

We should be under no illusion. This was a major loss. The most embarrassing in our history. We shouldn't just move on past it. The managers and players deserve to be scrutinised over it. There is a point in moaning if it helps create pressure to effect change. 

Edited by Shug2930
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EIGHTEEN years of waiting for European Football at Rugby Park, obliterated after 180 minutes against part timers from Wales!

This is not what Kilmarnock fans expected after 19 months of hard work under Steve Clarke, who took them from a relegation battle to third place last season before taking the Scotland job.

It took four weeks for the Killie board to name Clarke’s successor. Names like Roberto Di Matteo, Gus Poyet and Paul Clement were linked with the job before the left field appointment of Angelo Alessio was made. Whilst he’s worked as Antonio Conte’s right hand man at Juventus, Italy and Chelsea, Alessio has never been a Manager in his own right so him coming to Scottish Football is a big gamble for both parties.

He’s failed in his first test by overseeing, arguably, the clubs most embarrassing European result to Connah’s Quay Nomads. Having been 2-1 up from the first leg in Wales, Killie should’ve been seeing the tie through on their own turf but found it difficult to break down a dogged Nomads team, whose intention was to frustrate Killie and hit them on the break. With only two shots on target and two goals, it was mission accomplished for the Welsh Runners Up.

For Kilmarnock, there has to be serious question marks over their acitivity this summer, from the recruitment process that led to Alessio’s appointment and the lack of transfer activity.

When Clarke was unveiled as Scotland Manager, he made it clear that he had made a decision weeks prior that he was leaving Kilmarnock at the end of last season. With this in mind, the board should’ve been well prepared for his departure and start working behind the scenes to identify a suitable successor at that point. The fact it took them four weeks, and that the new man only came in just before the players returned for pre-season training, was not ideal. Whilst Billy Bowie and the board will argue they needed time to get the right person into carry on Clarke’s good work, the new manager should’ve been in place within no longer than a fortnight to give them a chance to settle in before the players returned.

Having been linked with Di Matteo, Poyet and Clement, Managers with a decent pedigree, the appointment of Alessio is underwhelming. Yes he’s worked with some of the best players in his time as a coach, but management is a different kettle of fish altogether and the appointment of someone of no managerial experience and little or no knowledge of Scottish Football is a big risk by the Kilmarnock board.

The fact Alessio has only been in the job for four weeks has also hindered the player recruitment process this summer. Before the Europa League Qualifying deadline, only two players were brought in whilst a total of 13 players departed, of which seven returned to their parent clubs following loan spells. This included the loss of Jordan Jones to Rangers, Youssuf Muloumbu back to parent club Celtic (and has since been released) and Kris Boyd to retirement, though the latter became a bit part player in his final season.

Although the majority of the side that were mainstrays under Clarke are still there, this has not been ideal preparation for the new manager and the lack of creativity in the side is alarming. Eamonn Brophy has struggled to hit the same heights since Greg Stewart’s departure in January, and he needs a partner in support to take the goalscoring weight off his shoulders.

That all being said, Kilmarnock should still have been more than good enough to see this tie out, particularly having taken a 2-1 lead back to Rugby Park. Connah’s may not be mugs and did manage to reach the Challenge Cup Final last season before going down 3-1 in the Final to Ross County. However, they were up against Falkirk, Queens Park and Edinburgh City en route to facing the Championship winners and Killie were the third best side in the country. Add to the fact that the majority of Andy Morrison’s team were travelling back to go to work the following morning tells you all you need to know that this was a draw Kilmarnock should’ve negotiated without much difficulty.

As a result of last nights disastrous result, several Killie fans are out of pocket on flights to Belgrade, where they were due to meet Partizan Belgrade had they seen off Connah’s Quay. Instead, they have become the latest victim of embarrassing European exits for our clubs that has had serious ramifications for our coefficient, which has led to the early starts to the season and very short summer breaks for our players.

More importantly for Kilmarnock is how they recover with the start of the Premiership season coming up in a fortnights time. The fans will be wondering just how much of the good work that Steve Clarke done will now go to waste under Angelo Alessio after this damaging result. Good recruitment, getting onside with the current group and grasping a knowledge of Scottish Football is going to be key if he is to prove that he is more than just a good coach and carry on the feelgood factor Kilmarnock have had over the last two years.

https://www.scottishfootballforums.co.uk/2019/07/managerial-delay-kills-off-killies-european-adventure/

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Mojike and Bod said:

Signing Stevie May is another reason to punt the absolute balloon. Can’t believe the board are standing by him and watching this unfold. 

When did we sign Stevie May? 

After the summer we’ve had of nonsense rumours, I think we should be a bit more cautious in believing transfer speculation.

Edited by fraz65
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He has been a 'manager' in his own right albeit at some lower level Italian clubs... Imolese and SPAL. He also managed Juve for 8 matches while Conte was suspended. Must admit to being a bit torn on this. After the game thought he probably has to go, due to the various issues which have been outlined on this thread. However, concerns about being able to either pay him off and bringing another manager in right at the start of the season, don't know, with the added turmoil that could create.

Ultimately SC is irreplaceable. No matter who we got, they were never going to be as good. He is a one off. In saying that as a club we should never be beaten over a two legged tie to a team of the standard of CQ. However,...if he is able to bring his own players in now, and show signs of being able to address the clear weaknesses we have, and especially the need for at least two strikers, a pacey winger and a number 10, it will be easier to judge overall.

It is unfortunate that we start with Sevco and Aberdeen, not to mention Accies who always bring their own issues. Having a St.Mirren or St. Johnstone type game at home would have been better. We could conceivably be sitting on 1pt after the first 3 games, which would seriously crank up the pressure on AA. 

So, how long does he have realistically? Not long to be sure, there have to be signs of the players working hard and also being able to implement some of what he is trying to get across in the next month or two. If not.... Had we even managed to scrape through this tie and gone to at least give Partizan a game he would at least have bought himself some time.

The type of signings made in the next two weeks will now be crucial and determine where we go from here. Obviously talk about player unrest etc already is very concerning to say the least, but time will tell.

 

 

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6 hours ago, diamond_geezer said:

I think you are confusing “ the damned United “ a la Clough .  What medals did the St Mirren players have ? Understandable confusion but let’s get the facts right. 

They won the first division only weeks prior to Stubbs appointment!

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16 hours ago, david mcbeth said:

No one has suggested he should be beheaded in front of his family...yet

What about a horses head under his bed sheets then? 

You know, just as a pull your finger out kind of warning. 

If things don't improve 

Angelo Alessio sleeps with the fishes. 

Ciao. 

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