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Don’t blame the manager


Berts Killie

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19 minutes ago, NorfolkG said:

A lot of people on here were slevering at this appointment. Some of them are on here tonight calling him all sorts. If the board was fooled, so were they.

I think this appointment is/was about raising the profile. It was a brave call. It’s looking like it might have been a mistake. I wanted solid: Holt or Hughes. But I saw the sense in this approach. Tonight’s performance by outstanding leaders, all looking demotivated, nervous and unhappy, has me worried though.

Holt was in the directors box tonight 

Edited by Killie wanderer
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In terms of "spreading the blame" .........at the time I was surprised how long the Board took to even consider applicants let alone made the appointment of a new Manager we had qualified for Europe for first time in decades ....was vital we got a Manager in ASAP , with the players we lost was vital to get new players in time for the qualifying games, we should have had at least one or 2 friendly games arranged before the first qualifier 

instead it all looked Ill prepared 

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Don’t think sacking him is the way to go.

He’s only just in the door.

Do we really want to go back to post Kenny Shiels? Changing our manager every single summer? I don’t.

Once the dust settles and we beat the huns after signing Millar and another few attacking threats we will be fine.

Cant blame the manager for everything.

Still in two cups and have a league to play. 

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Our strength under SC was often to sit in a bit 1st half and then exploit the other sides weaknesses 2nd. We have a group of players all of whom SC molded into an exceptional unit at playing that way, When facing an opponent which largely are content to sit in themselves you probably need 2 things...quick wingers and a number 10 who is able to open them up with killer passes in behind. Unfortunately having lost Mulumbu and earlier Greg Stewart, both players who are well equipped to find that killer final ball, and yes, even Jones who at least was able to run at pace, from wide and central areas we are less able to open up teams who want to defend in depth.

However......we were playing a side who are effectively junior level in Scottish terms, yes, they were quite well organised, but...any manager should still be able to come up with a plan which, over not one, but two matches is good enough to find the goals to at least get through such a tie. 

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23 minutes ago, Pedro'sBrither said:

What a waste of time last season was now.

First 3rd place finish in over 50 years. The record books will say that forever.

Definitely not a waste of time.

Terrible result tonight and a sickener but European football is now a pre-season knockabout for non elite clubs.

 

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I felt it became very apparent last night, in the light of Burke’s superior showing compared to the rest, that he’s the only one that has played at a higher level. The rest, especially SOD and Taylor, need to buck up their ideas ASAP. They’re all at serious risk of being found out as average players.

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This all reminds me a bit of Berti Vogts with Scotland.

Remember hearing stories of him trying to convey tactics to his squad that any German player had studied since they were kids and the British-based players just couldn't follow.  Think there's a real chance that could be the case here . 

AA might work out if he gets time.  His tactics might be solid and intentions ambitious - but I think we could be a dirge to watch while the style beds in. 

As many have said though, why try to fix what ain't broken?

 

I also think the Sevco game could be a right tough watch, with so much unnecessary pressure now on us to at the very least put in a great performance.

I'd put money on a front 3 of Jones, Stewart and Morelos putting their life into getting it up us.

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15 minutes ago, dasboag said:

This all reminds me a bit of Berti Vogts with Scotland.

Remember hearing stories of him trying to convey tactics to his squad that any German player had studied since they were kids and the British-based players just couldn't follow.  Think there's a real chance that could be the case here . 

AA might work out if he gets time.  His tactics might be solid and intentions ambitious - but I think we could be a dirge to watch while the style beds in. 

As many have said though, why try to fix what ain't broken?

 

I also think the Sevco game could be a right tough watch, with so much unnecessary pressure now on us to at the very least put in a great performance.

I'd put money on a front 3 of Jones, Stewart and Morelos putting their life into getting it up us.

I do blame the manager for the shocking result over two legs.

I agree with the Vogts comments. Clarke made things simple for the players though mentioned he would introduce a more complex playing style later though we never did see that style. I suspect because he didn't think the players were capable of such skills. I have listened a little(still too much) to Neil McCann talking about tactics and playing styles and he really makes it very very complicated. Football can be a simple game and Clarke proved that by keeping things simple you can beat teams with better technical ability that yours. Exactly as Nomads did to us on Thursday. AA very quickly needs to realise he is no longer dealing with elite players ad that his job of coaching is worlds away from his jobs in the past. Another huge issue is his ability to communicate his complex style to the players with his poor english. If he cannot accept that then he will be a total failure at a club like Killie. The only way he will be able successfully adopt his expansive playing style will be by getting players in on loan who in real terms are "too good" for Killie and by that I mean way out our price range. Over to you Angelo?

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Alessio will need a year or two to put his plans in place. I'm not sure why this wasn't clear to everyone on here. 

Presumably the board knew this as well. 

I was surprised at the enthusiasm towards his appointment. For the past month, we've had people salivating over every Inter Milan reserve player, quotes from del Piero and "Forza Killie" memes, ignoring the fact that he hasn't managed in his own right since 2008 and can speak only mediocre English. 

 

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1 minute ago, fraz65 said:

Alessio will need a year or two to put his plans in place. I'm not sure why this wasn't clear to everyone on here. 

Presumably the board knew this as well. 

I was surprised at the enthusiasm towards his appointment. For the past month, we've had people salivating over every Inter Milan reserve player, quotes from del Piero and "Forza Killie" memes, ignoring the fact that he hasn't managed in his own right since 2008 and can speak only mediocre English. 

 

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Spot on. He's managed nobody dont know what folk were expecting. Was expecting to win Thursday. I'm sure Dyer could had got us through to the next round. 

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17 minutes ago, Graeme S said:

I agree with the Vogts comments. Clarke made things simple for the players... Football can be a simple game and Clarke proved that by keeping things simple you can beat teams with better technical ability that yours. 

All about opinions, but I have always hated this reading of Clarke. 

I've never seen a Killie side more tactically drilled than Clarke's - that's got nothing to do with being simple. 

The work Clarke's team did off the ball was incredible. That came from being drilled about our system and the opposition system. The off the ball movement shifted depending on who we were playing too, which is even more work. 

The way our midfield and defence would overlap when defending and shift and change into attack was all about tactical work and coaching. Parking the bus is easy, defending low then have the awareness and the positioning to counter attack and actually be a threat is so much harder - that's how we got results against Rangers.

Levein is a manager who keeps it simple and Hearts results were largely dreadful against better sides. 

The players said again and again in interviews that they were unbelievably impressed by Clarke behind the scenes. I think because he said little on the interviews he was taken as being a straight forward, old school manager. I think he was nothing of the sort. 

The complaints which I've read on here and heard elsewhere om Alessio seem, if anything, to be the opposite - the players don't think they are being worked hard enough in that regard. What he's trying is good but doesn't go far enough. 

There's a totally legitimate argument that a manager like Alessio was always going to risk getting that reaction from the players. 

But I think we were damned if we did and damned if we didn't. I reckon it's just as likely that that squad would take against someone like Holt for being too simplistic. 

We might well find that squad have been ruined by coaching which is too good...

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1 minute ago, Whiskychimp said:

The pish about "don't change a winning formula" gets on my nerves. 

Any new manager will want to manage his own way.

No-one could realistically expect a new manager just to carry on with Clarke's way. 

 

You need to carry on the Clarke way with our players. They are not capable of anything else

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I blame the manager and think he must go. We managed third place without all his changes in personnel and added expenditure for wages etc, We are not Chelsea or some Italian super team, we are Killie. A sports scientist my god, we are the laughing stock of Scottish Football, this week I need a  cure for post traumatic football disorder. Its also apparent that them from the south of our shire are gloating, can I remind them they would never be in our position to be humiliated as they can only dream of winning a trophy or qualifying for Europe. Its my first post but believe me, no matter who beats us or slags us I will always support our team, 

 

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4 minutes ago, mitch14 said:

All about opinions, but I have always hated this reading of Clarke. 

I've never seen a Killie side more tactically drilled than Clarke's - that's got nothing to do with being simple. 

The work Clarke's team did off the ball was incredible. That came from being drilled about our system and the opposition system. The off the ball movement shifted depending on who we were playing too, which is even more work. 

The way our midfield and defence would overlap when defending and shift and change into attack was all about tactical work and coaching. Parking the bus is easy, defending low then have the awareness and the positioning to counter attack and actually be a threat is so much harder - that's how we got results against Rangers.

Levein is a manager who keeps it simple and Hearts results were largely dreadful against better sides. 

The players said again and again in interviews that they were unbelievably impressed by Clarke behind the scenes. I think because he said little on the interviews he was taken as being a straight forward, old school manager. I think he was nothing of the sort. 

The complaints which I've read on here and heard elsewhere om Alessio seem, if anything, to be the opposite - the players don't think they are being worked hard enough in that regard. What he's trying is good but doesn't go far enough. 

There's a totally legitimate argument that a manager like Alessio was always going to risk getting that reaction from the players. 

But I think we were damned if we did and damned if we didn't. I reckon it's just as likely that that squad would take against someone like Holt for being too simplistic. 

We might well find that squad have been ruined by coaching which is too good...

I'm no great tactician but I still think Clarke kept his instructions to players very easy to understand so perhaps simple isn't the correct word.I suspect that by clever coaching and psychology he had the players doing things they didn't think they were capable of. In no way am I suggesting that what Clarke did was easy and I do think he coached these guys brilliantly. Of course if it was simple you and i could do it? 

I agree the players have been coached to a level that will be very hard to replicate and for that reason last season was perhaps the best we will see for a very long time.Even more incredible when you consider pretty much all of the coaching was done by SC and AD!

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33 minutes ago, Graeme S said:

I'm no great tactician but I still think Clarke kept his instructions to players very easy to understand so perhaps simple isn't the correct word.I suspect that by clever coaching and psychology he had the players doing things they didn't think they were capable of. In no way am I suggesting that what Clarke did was easy and I do think he coached these guys brilliantly. Of course if it was simple you and i could do it? 

I agree the players have been coached to a level that will be very hard to replicate and for that reason last season was perhaps the best we will see for a very long time.Even more incredible when you consider pretty much all of the coaching was done by SC and AD!

Most sensible post I've read sinceTjhurdaday 

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57 minutes ago, Whiskychimp said:

The pish about "don't change a winning formula" gets on my nerves. 

Any new manager will want to manage his own way.

No-one could realistically expect a new manager just to carry on with Clarke's way. 

Appointing Alex Dyer? 

In fact, there will be many who play a similar style to Clarke in today's "make your team hard to beat" style. 

I'm not saying you don't have a point, of course every manager will want to put their own style on their team, but AA's seems to be too complex for a team that excelled playing basic football. 

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42 minutes ago, mitch14 said:

We might well find that squad have been ruined by coaching which is too good...

Can remember after the (first) time we beat Celtic at RP reading a brilliant analysis of SC's tactics that day by a Dutch (I know 9_9, and yes he was Dutch) commentator. To the 'untrained' eye (ie not a sports journalist or coach) we had simply kept it tight, forced them into wide areas and then 'doubled up' on them with the full back and winger working in tandem. (this was the match when Celtic who had only lost one League game at Tynecastle had one shot on target in the whole match and Mulumbu scored the winner). However. when the game plan was broken down by the journalist it looked brilliant. The way SC had set out to completely nullify Celtic's strenghts in every area wasn't just 'keeping it simple' it was a plan that no other Scottish side had come up with. Remember how often Derek McInnes did interviews prior to each of their cup finals or big matches against Celtic and said 'Ive worked out a different plan this time, we've learned from the last game' etc. Yet each time..victory for Celtic. The work which SC and AD put into these matches was phenomenal. So, yes, for a new coach to come in and say, 'we will try a more expansive game',even with the same set of players isn't something which can work overnight if at all.

However....when Mixu was appointed can recall being at the first League game at Ibrox, which although we lost 2-1, thought 'we played a different and more encouraging brand of football today'...it took until late October for Mixu's methods to click with a 3-0 win at Tynecastle, and we never looked back.

Where does this leave AA...not sure. Agree that we have a group of players who have been used to coaching of the very highest level for 2 years. Can AA turn out longer term to be another Mixu with his ideas, or an Ian Cathro with his laptop? It could be that the squad we have are suited to the tactics which SC employed so successfully and perhaps their strenghts aren't a more 'expansive' style. It could be that AA just isn't cut out to manage in the environment of the Scottish game. 2 games in, one utterly horrendous result,...by the end of October this time we will certainly know if its Mixu..or Cathro.

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2 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

Can remember after the (first) time we beat Celtic at RP reading a brilliant analysis of SC's tactics that day by a Dutch (I know 9_9, and yes he was Dutch) commentator. To the 'untrained' eye (ie not a sports journalist or coach) we had simply kept it tight, forced them into wide areas and then 'doubled up' on them with the full back and winger working in tandem. (this was the match when Celtic who had only lost one League game at Tynecastle had one shot on target in the whole match and Mulumbu scored the winner). However. when the game plan was broken down by the journalist it looked brilliant. The way SC had set out to completely nullify Celtic's strenghts in every area wasn't just 'keeping it simple' it was a plan that no other Scottish side had come up with. Remember how often Derek McInnes did interviews prior to each of their cup finals or big matches against Celtic and said 'Ive worked out a different plan this time, we've learned from the last game' etc. Yet each time..victory for Celtic. The work which SC and AD put into these matches was phenomenal. So, yes, for a new coach to come in and say, 'we will try a more expansive game',even with the same set of players isn't something which can work overnight if at all.

However....when Mixu was appointed can recall being at the first League game at Ibrox, which although we lost 2-1, thought 'we played a different and more encouraging brand of football today'...it took until late October for Mixu's methods to click with a 3-0 win at Tynecastle, and we never looked back.

Where does this leave AA...not sure. Agree that we have a group of players who have been used to coaching of the very highest level for 2 years. Can AA turn out longer term to be another Mixu with his ideas, or an Ian Cathro with his laptop? It could be that the squad we have are suited to the tactics which SC employed so successfully and perhaps their strenghts aren't a more 'expansive' style. It could be that AA just isn't cut out to manage in the environment of the Scottish game. 2 games in, one utterly horrendous result,...by the end of October this time we will certainly know if its Mixu..or Cathro.

Or Marcio Maximo. 

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