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Don’t blame the manager


Berts Killie

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1 minute ago, NorfolkG said:

Ebbe Skovdahl? Good reputation, good ideas, nice man, wrong fit.

He did OK at Aberdeen and was popular with the fans. 

He signed Arild Stavrum and Peter Kier and the club were already a basket case when he joined them. 

It took them the best part of 20 years to get over Fergie. Hopefully the same won't happen to Killie post-Clarke. 

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1 minute ago, Graeme S said:

Ah Ebbe Skovdahl - "“Statistics are just like mini-skirts, they give you good ideas but hide the most important thing.”

That's a cracking quote. If Alessio can come up with something similar i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. 

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3 minutes ago, fraz65 said:

He did OK at Aberdeen and was popular with the fans. 

He signed Arild Stavrum and Peter Kier and the club were already a basket case when he joined them. 

It took them the best part of 20 years to get over Fergie. Hopefully the same won't happen to Killie post-Clarke. 

I think he was popular because he was trying his best rather than for actually being good. Dodged relegation, humiliating Irish euro exit. Did get 4 years but probably shouldn’t have. And it was a long time after Srallix. I think that excuse cuts it for a while but not almost 20 years later!

I do take your point though - there are shades of grey to every story.

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2 hours ago, Jedi2 said:

Can remember after the (first) time we beat Celtic at RP reading a brilliant analysis of SC's tactics that day by a Dutch (I know 9_9, and yes he was Dutch) commentator. To the 'untrained' eye (ie not a sports journalist or coach) we had simply kept it tight, forced them into wide areas and then 'doubled up' on them with the full back and winger working in tandem. (this was the match when Celtic who had only lost one League game at Tynecastle had one shot on target in the whole match and Mulumbu scored the winner). However. when the game plan was broken down by the journalist it looked brilliant. The way SC had set out to completely nullify Celtic's strenghts in every area wasn't just 'keeping it simple' it was a plan that no other Scottish side had come up with. Remember how often Derek McInnes did interviews prior to each of their cup finals or big matches against Celtic and said 'Ive worked out a different plan this time, we've learned from the last game' etc. Yet each time..victory for Celtic. The work which SC and AD put into these matches was phenomenal. So, yes, for a new coach to come in and say, 'we will try a more expansive game',even with the same set of players isn't something which can work overnight if at all.

However....when Mixu was appointed can recall being at the first League game at Ibrox, which although we lost 2-1, thought 'we played a different and more encouraging brand of football today'...it took until late October for Mixu's methods to click with a 3-0 win at Tynecastle, and we never looked back.

Where does this leave AA...not sure. Agree that we have a group of players who have been used to coaching of the very highest level for 2 years. Can AA turn out longer term to be another Mixu with his ideas, or an Ian Cathro with his laptop? It could be that the squad we have are suited to the tactics which SC employed so successfully and perhaps their strenghts aren't a more 'expansive' style. It could be that AA just isn't cut out to manage in the environment of the Scottish game. 2 games in, one utterly horrendous result,...by the end of October this time we will certainly know if its Mixu..or Cathro.

Excellent post.

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8 hours ago, Graeme S said:

I agree the players have been coached to a level that will be very hard to replicate and for that reason last season was perhaps the best we will see for a very long time.Even more incredible when you consider pretty much all of the coaching was done by SC and AD!

The picture I have in my head is the manager speaking the the players and them all catching each others eye and silently saying "this is pish isn't it?". I think you'd lose a squad really quickly like that. 

That could happen with a Cathro where the players are just not inspired or the tactics are more complicated than they need to be. 

That could also happen with a Redknapp type figure who was famous for saying "just run around a bit" and not doing much coaching at all. 

Either way the players know what good coaching is and will react to bad coaching. I think that's why McLeish was doomed at Scotland - those players are used to Klopp, Clarke, McInnes, Rodgers, Mourinho etc - McLeishs rubbish coaching must have lost that squad in days. 

Point being - I don't think we can be harsh on Bowie if Alessio doesn't work out. He has the same profile as Clarke only with a bit less actual management experience. 

I must say that I would have nene veyr happy with Darren Moore who seems, from another thread, to have been considered. But we might equally have critisiced that for lack of ambition? 

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7 hours ago, Jedi2 said:

Can remember after the (first) time we beat Celtic at RP reading a brilliant analysis of SC's tactics that day by a Dutch (I know 9_9, and yes he was Dutch) commentator. To the 'untrained' eye (ie not a sports journalist or coach) we had simply kept it tight, forced them into wide areas and then 'doubled up' on them with the full back and winger working in tandem. (this was the match when Celtic who had only lost one League game at Tynecastle had one shot on target in the whole match and Mulumbu scored the winner). However. when the game plan was broken down by the journalist it looked brilliant. The way SC had set out to completely nullify Celtic's strenghts in every area wasn't just 'keeping it simple' it was a plan that no other Scottish side had come up with. Remember how often Derek McInnes did interviews prior to each of their cup finals or big matches against Celtic and said 'Ive worked out a different plan this time, we've learned from the last game' etc. Yet each time..victory for Celtic. The work which SC and AD put into these matches was phenomenal. So, yes, for a new coach to come in and say, 'we will try a more expansive game',even with the same set of players isn't something which can work overnight if at all.

However....when Mixu was appointed can recall being at the first League game at Ibrox, which although we lost 2-1, thought 'we played a different and more encouraging brand of football today'...it took until late October for Mixu's methods to click with a 3-0 win at Tynecastle, and we never looked back.

Where does this leave AA...not sure. Agree that we have a group of players who have been used to coaching of the very highest level for 2 years. Can AA turn out longer term to be another Mixu with his ideas, or an Ian Cathro with his laptop? It could be that the squad we have are suited to the tactics which SC employed so successfully and perhaps their strenghts aren't a more 'expansive' style. It could be that AA just isn't cut out to manage in the environment of the Scottish game. 2 games in, one utterly horrendous result,...by the end of October this time we will certainly know if its Mixu..or Cathro.

That Celric game stands out a mile to me. I sit really close to the pitch in the East. Watching SoD and Mckenzie was remarkable. The amount of movement, the plan to stop Tierney, constantly talking, constantly being told by the midfield where they should be. That was when I knew we had someone special managing us. 

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2 minutes ago, mitch14 said:

The picture I have in my head is the manager speaking the the players and them all catching each others eye and silently saying "this is pish isn't it?". I think you'd lose a squad really quickly like that. 

That could happen with a Cathro where the players are just not inspired or the tactics are more complicated than they need to be. 

That could also happen with a Redknapp type figure who was famous for saying "just run around a bit" and not doing much coaching at all. 

Either way the players know what good coaching is and will react to bad coaching. I think that's why McLeish was doomed at Scotland - those players are used to Klopp, Clarke, McInnes, Rodgers, Mourinho etc - McLeishs rubbish coaching must have lost that squad in days. 

Point being - I don't think we can be harsh on Bowie if Alessio doesn't work out. He has the same profile as Clarke only with a bit less actual management experience. 

I must say that I would have nene veyr happy with Darren Moore who seems, from another thread, to have been considered. But we might equally have critisiced that for lack of ambition? 

I would have been delighted with Darren Moore. 

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9 hours ago, andy123 said:

You need to carry on the Clarke way with our players. They are not capable of anything else

 

9 hours ago, azertyuiop said:

Yeah. A working formula is a terrible thing to try and build on...

 

Much better with the sledge hammer approach.

Therefore you should only be blaming the board. He would have told them his ideas for the team at his interview. 

 

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1 hour ago, fraz65 said:

I would have been delighted with Darren Moore. 

who wasnt held in that high regard by the baggie fans that i know. decent run the PL but struggled a bit the championship. i was hoping for better than Darren, i thought we might have accomplished that, only time will tell.

tbh the europa league was a welcome distraction, but i want the focus now to be on beating the huns rather than slating the manager, everyone deserves a chance

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What I can’t understand about Thursday night is that that group of experienced players who had been coached to within an inch of their lives by SSC failed to realise that a change in tactics was needed on the pitch , yet didnt take it upon themselves  to do so . I know the 2nd goal had a bit of misfortune about it and the 1st was poor from a goalkeeping aspect but surely Dicker et al should have resorted to what they knew and seen the game out and argued with AA in the dressing room at full time . From my stand point it looked as if they were demonstrating to AA that his tactics were s**te yet continued to implement them regardless of what was happening on the pitch . My opinion is based on what I saw in the pre match interview with KB and AA and what I saw on Thursday night nothing else .

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10 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

What I can’t understand about Thursday night is that that group of experienced players who had been coached to within an inch of their lives by SSC failed to realise that a change in tactics was needed on the pitch , yet didnt take it upon themselves  to do so . I know the 2nd goal had a bit of misfortune about it and the 1st was poor from a goalkeeping aspect but surely Dicker et al should have resorted to what they knew and seen the game out and argued with AA in the dressing room at full time . From my stand point it looked as if they were demonstrating to AA that his tactics were s**te yet continued to implement them regardless of what was happening on the pitch . My opinion is based on what I saw in the pre match interview with KB and AA and what I saw on Thursday night nothing else .

From the press interviews after the game with both Dicker and Chris Burke you could draw the same conclusion that both were implying that AA does not now what he is doing.

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17 minutes ago, superfan said:

From the press interviews after the game with both Dicker and Chris Burke you could draw the same conclusion that both were implying that AA does not now what he is doing.

I mean you could say professional footballers that need management to score a goal against a pub team, clearly don't know what they're doing either 

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6 minutes ago, Killiepies said:

There seems to be some sort of fallout with the players and the management .They really don't fancy his tactics ,maybe they just don't like change .One way or another we will soon find because one of them will go running to the press 

Or the press and us on here will just make s**t up.

What SC did was galvanise everything Killie in one direction, this MUST not be allowed to be eroded by the press agenda designed to prevent anyone or anything impacting the bugot brothers or the statis quo in Scottish football.

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7 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

Or the press and us on here will just make s**t up.

What SC did was galvanise everything Killie in one direction, this MUST not be allowed to be eroded by the press agenda designed to prevent anyone or anything impacting the bugot brothers or the statis quo in Scottish football.

The press didn't appoint the manager and his assistant .There is clearly something up and you could see it on Thursday night .Burke was clearly raging at beeing subbed and a few of the players could be plainly seen shaking here heads in disbelief .It looks to me that the managment are having a problem trying to get the players to buy into there style of play 

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I'm afraid to say, (regarding the quote of AA maybe not cut out for the scottish game after 2 games in.) As, we havent played in the Scottish league yet.. how can this even be said?

 

Give it time panicky bed wetters. We were by far the better team possession wise and overall in wales and at home. Just couldnt find the back of the net.

 

We need some players in to help the boys already here. We all know we need a goal scorer and a centre half, however I would also love to see a good number 10 come in with experience as I felt that in both games, we lacked someone behind brophy playing tighter passes to him as all these wide balls in were dealt with easily as the welsh centre halves just doubled up on him making his nights hell. Not good for his confidence considering the (would be) gulf in class between the teams.

 

Together we are stronger my friends, always remember it. We're in the biggest transitional period for the club in modern times IMO. Sadly, It'll take time. But keep the faith, keep turning up and getting behind the lads. They will be (or should be) as disappointed as we are, they were the ones running about doing all the work on the pitch for the best part of 2 season to get to where we were 2 weeks ago.

 

Big season ahead, keep turning up and don't lose the faith.

 

We are the Killie family.

Edited by GavKillie
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1 minute ago, GavKillie said:

I'm afraid to say, regarding the quote of AA maybe not cut out for the scottish game after 2 games in. As, we havent played in the Scottish league yet..

 

Give it time panicky bed wetters. We were by far the better team possession wise and overall in wales and at home. Just couldnt find the back of the net.

 

We need some players in to help the boys already here. We all know we need a goal scorer and a centre half, however I would also love to see a good number 10 come in with experience as I felt that in both games, we lacked someone behind brophy playing tighter passes to him as all these wide balls in were dealt with easily as the welsh centre halves just doubled up on him making his nights hell. Not good for his confidence considering the (would be) gulf in class between the teams.

 

Together we are stronger my friends, always remember it. We're in the biggest transitional period for the club in modern times IMO. Sadly, It'll take time. But keep the faith, keep turning up and getting behind the lads. They will be (or should be) as disappointed as we are, they were the ones running about doing all the work on the pitch for the best part of 2 season to get to where we were 2 weeks ago.

 

Big season ahead, keep turning up and don't lose the faith.

 

We are the Killie family.

The bed wetters chat is cringeworthy and totally detracts from an argument.

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1 minute ago, NorfolkG said:

The bed wetters chat is cringeworthy and totally detracts from an argument.

Tell me it's not the case though. The frustration I understand, I'm still in disbelief myself. But it's happened, we need to move on. 

 

All I'm saying is, keep the faith. BB will back AA to the hilt and they will (I can only hope) bring in the necessary players to assist in his vision. 

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47 minutes ago, skygod said:

Ever since the club’s first tie in Europe against Eintracht Frankfurt, I’ve regarded playing in Europe as the club’s main objective. 

Lots of famous names from big cities have visited RP and failed to go away with a win - Real Madrid, Leeds Utd., Nice, FC Zurich, Lokomotive Leipzig, Frankfurt - and the club has put our wee town’s name on the map. 

I don’t regard the Europa League as a welcome distraction. That phrase applies to fripperies like the Intertoto Cup, not a competition the club has striven to reach without success for eighteen years. 

Losing to a Welsh club whose average gate is around 300 is a disgrace. It’s not something you sweep under the carpet three days later. 

The professionals at the club can try to knuckle down and focus on the next match. That's their job. 

But the supporters are entitled to be hurt and not feel the need to apologise for doing so. 

Well said. Sums up my thoughts too.

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3 minutes ago, GavKillie said:

Tell me it's not the case though. The frustration I understand, I'm still in disbelief myself. But it's happened, we need to move on. 

 

All I'm saying is, keep the faith. BB will back AA to the hilt and they will (I can only hope) bring in the necessary players to assist in his vision. 

I don’t think it is the case.

I think the summer has been an utter shambles, culminating in out worst ever - and most humiliating - result. I accept this is not all the manager’s fault but surely people have a right to be very angry and very concerned?

It doesn’t affect how I will get behind the team - that is always 100%.

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