Jump to content

PM BoJo


Scooter

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Bonbon19 said:

I predict it won’t be too long before he’s replaced by a spokesperson after been torn a new one one day . 

I agree I don't know how much humiliation BoJo is willing to endure. Even The Trumpet decided to take a bit of a break after the "try drinking bleach" episode.

They may decide to pre-vet all questions to avoid embarrassment.

Edited by gdevoy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, gdevoy said:

The government has made many mistakes in dealing with coronavirus leading to the deaths of many thousands of our older citizens. But really I don't feel they deserve too much criticism there. The disease is completely new, nobody knows how it would and will evolve and we are all learning, by our mistakes as we go. 

This just lets them off with their shambolic performance and doesn't hold them to account for the tens of thousands of people who have perished unnecessarily.

This virus has been transmitted in part by populist rhetoric, compounded by strongman posturing. Vague, contradictory, even flippant messaging, nonsense about herd immunity and 'taking it on the chin' were replaced by half-hearted suggestions to wash your hands while singing, to be replaced again by 'growing some balls' and getting on with it!

An existential threat proliferated by a series of political choices, it just didn't need to happen the way it has.

 

Edited by Scooter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Scooter said:

This virus has been transmitted in part by populist rhetoric, compounded by strongman posturing. Vague, contradictory, even flippant messaging, nonsense about herd immunity and 'taking it on the chin' were replaced by half-hearted suggestions to wash your hands while singing, to be replaced again by 'growing some balls' and getting on with it!

 

Johnston is not the only leader to go down that path in the absence of any good information of the best path and that approach has worked in other circumstances in the past. As it happens in this case, with the benifit of hindsight it was clearly wrong. Leaders make bad decisions and s**t happens all the time. Claiming it was brilliantly right does my head in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Things we have moved on from and are required to forget...

Oven ready deal. Five missed Cobra meetings. Herd immunity. Delay in lockdown. Lies about PPE stockpiles. Half hearted lockdown. No widespread testing. Arcuri scandal. Patel bullying scandal. Cummings gate. Jenrick scandal. The contact tracing app. Won't take the knee. One of the highest death rates in the world while laughing in our faces.

Anything I've missed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

Johnston is not the only leader to go down that path in the absence of any good information of the best path and that approach has worked in other circumstances in the past. As it happens in this case, with the benifit of hindsight it was clearly wrong. Leaders make bad decisions and s**t happens all the time. Claiming it was brilliantly right does my head in.

I dont think even hindsight involved gdevoy. Things were happening when govt should have been taking action and was pointed out to them and they just carried on regardless "doing everything at the right time" and  "following the science".  There was good information available from Italy and Spain. We knew it was coming. An example I can give you , thanks to comments/advice by Dr Jenny Harries, that there was no science behind wearing a mask. In March, someone I know who works in a care home was told, you just wear a mask if there is an outbreak. I said at the time what bollox. No hindsight involved.  This "waiting to the end" and then judging is so wrong. I noticed today Johnson made a couple of remarks about looking at how to do things better. He has no sympathy from me, immature or not. Blood on his hands and the smirking clown is getting away with it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, gdevoy said:

The government has made many mistakes in dealing with coronavirus leading to the deaths of many thousands of our older citizens. But really I don't feel they deserve too much criticism there.

 

 

Personally I think they deserve barrowloads of criticism. For me I’m struggling to think of any statement made by the leader of the government where he has got the tone broadly correct, other than possibly the lockdown announcement on 23rd March. This one was admittedly a crucial one but even that was ruined by the fact that in the days before he had been stating he was hoping to see his mother, rambling in jovial fashion about lack of social distancing in the briefings and even is comment about “many of us will lose loved ones before our time” I thought was ill judged in many ways and no doubt encouraged the feeling so many people seem to have that it is no risk to them so why bother.
 

since then the whole thing has just been a complete shambles, patronising nonsense being spouted at every opportunity that seems to me to show nothing more than contempt for the UK public. Random lockdown relaxations announced every day which I am sure are calculated to serve a double purpose of distracting from the bad news while also making it very hard to pin blame on anyone or anything in particular if things go wrong.

the Cummings story - he is a clever guy and I don’t believe for a minute he thought a story about going for a drive to test eyesight was going to wash. I can only conclude that whole episode was managed in a way designed to distract from something else. 
 

Unfortunately a bit like the Trump administration they have so far proven to actually be very good at manipulating the media in a way that wins them votes. This tragic situation may just be enough to show both of these dangerous governments up for what they are, but what a huge price to pay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Shropshire_killie said:

  "following the science".  

As I have said again and again there is no science. They made guesses, they were wrong. Jings yees make it sound like I am defending the brainless gutless arsehole. 

All I am saying is that your criticisms  could be directed at many leaders the world over. Even Wee Nicola if yees urnae carefully. Everybody made mistakes and people died. But some are more willing to admit they screwed up than others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, gdevoy said:

As I have said again and again there is no science. They made guesses, they were wrong. Jings yees make it sound like I am defending the brainless gutless arsehole. 

All I am saying is that your criticisms  could be directed at many leaders the world over. Even Wee Nicola if yees urnae carefully. Everybody made mistakes and people died. But some are more willing to admit they screwed up than others.

Sturgeon didn't make the crazy herd immunity statement & didn't boast Trump style about shaking hands with everybody in a hospital with Covid patients then also state he would carry on shaking hands with everybody.  He has caused thousands of needless deaths. Even the scientists at that time were advising us to keep our distance from others. That irresponsible feckwit completely ignored them.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, harley said:

Sturgeon didn't make the crazy herd immunity statement & didn't boast Trump style about shaking hands with everybody in a hospital with Covid patients then also state he would carry on shaking hands with everybody.  He has caused thousands of needless deaths. Even the scientists at that time were advising us to keep our distance from others. That irresponsible feckwit completely ignored them.

 

You are absolutely right and if you take a step back you notice that the countries with female keaders have fared generally better than those lead by populist nutjobs. But if you start politicking down that path the Tories at Holyrood are going to start asking about why wee Nicola f**ked up so badly over care homes.

In my view she is doing her best but as always there is room for improvement. And in contrast to the Eton Cretin she will make unpopular decisions when it is the right thing to do.

Edited by gdevoy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, gdevoy said:

You are absolutely right and if you take a step back you notice that the countries with female keaders have fared generally better than those lead by populist nutjobs. But if you start politicking down that path the Tories at Holyrood are going to start asking about why wee Nicola f**ked up so badly over care homes.

In my view she is doing her best but as always there is room for improvement. And in contrast to the Eton Cretin she will make unpopular decisions when it is the right thing to do.

It’s interesting that your pal, Ian Murray, also throws about the accusation the Scottish government “f**ked up” with care homes, but doesn’t mention that he received campaign funding from a care home group. I suppose it suits some people’s narrative to suggest that the Scottish government were responsible for care homes failing to follow standard infection control protocols, but it could not be further from the truth. The care homes had a duty of care to their residents and they have failed them spectacularly. They are now s**t scared they’re going to be financially liable for the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of residents and they’re using their paid lackeys to try and shift the blame. That’s the truth

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Zorro said:

It’s interesting that your pal, Ian Murray, also throws about the accusation the Scottish government “f**ked up” with care homes, but doesn’t mention that he received campaign funding from a care home group. I suppose it suits some people’s narrative to suggest that the Scottish government were responsible for care homes failing to follow standard infection control protocols, but it could not be further from the truth. The care homes had a duty of care to their residents and they have failed them spectacularly. They are now s**t scared they’re going to be financially liable for the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of residents and they’re using their paid lackeys to try and shift the blame. That’s the truth

Not withstanding that some care homes should have done a lot better to protect their residents they were forced to accept patients from hospitals who hadn’t been tested for covid . That undoubtedly was govt policy in all parts of the U.K. and it was implemented without malice . 
It appears from the report in the Telegraph that the NHS in hospitals had so called super spreaders in the form of porters and cleaners , who in the course of their duties and out of an undoubted desire to help others , have inadvertently spread covid throughout them. You will know yourself the efforts all staff went to to prevent this , yet it appears it occurred . The staff in care homes I’m sure did the best they could without being armed with all the information that is now becoming available . 
Is it resource lead ? If it was you’d expect the death rates to be less in the council run homes ? Alas the death rate in Scottish council care homes is worse than in private or the voluntary sector ( 172/163/143 per 1000 respectively) 
The blame culture is I’m afraid all pervasive wrt all branches of medicine and care and is on the increase . Let’s not add fuel to this phenomenon and wait for the inevitable enquiry and learn from it . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

Not withstanding that some care homes should have done a lot better to protect their residents they were forced to accept patients from hospitals who hadn’t been tested for covid . That undoubtedly was govt policy in all parts of the U.K. and it was implemented without malice . 
It appears from the report in the Telegraph that the NHS in hospitals had so called super spreaders in the form of porters and cleaners , who in the course of their duties and out of an undoubted desire to help others , have inadvertently spread covid throughout them. You will know yourself the efforts all staff went to to prevent this , yet it appears it occurred . The staff in care homes I’m sure did the best they could without being armed with all the information that is now becoming available . 
Is it resource lead ? If it was you’d expect the death rates to be less in the council run homes ? Alas the death rate in Scottish council care homes is worse than in private or the voluntary sector ( 172/163/143 per 1000 respectively) 
The blame culture is I’m afraid all pervasive wrt all branches of medicine and care and is on the increase . Let’s not add fuel to this phenomenon and wait for the inevitable enquiry and learn from it . 

Far too much political.game seeing played by WM and unionist politicians in particular.  Its all whataboutery  finger pointing and in the past week or so blatant mistruths being peddled as fact on social.media platforms. 

Midirection and propaganda is what they do best.

I've had to correct so many people.of a unionist persuasion this week, that the lies are obviously reaching their usual believer audience.

I had one guy demanding to know why NS hasn't stopped flights and ferries coming in, and saying he will never vote SNP because of this.  Oiterally someone saying the Scottish Government are to blame for not using powers they do not have!!!!  When I corrected him, he went very very quiet, then retorted about opening pubs being wrong too.  Again a correction came, and he trotted out that NS was.stopping people from going on holiday as she was blocking the air bridges.  So I corrected him again and told.him Wales and NI also.said the set up was a shambles,  he simply said they should all.do as they're told!!!

Some will.never ever see the trees for the woods.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

Not withstanding that some care homes should have done a lot better to protect their residents they were forced to accept patients from hospitals who hadn’t been tested for covid . That undoubtedly was govt policy in all parts of the U.K. and it was implemented without malice . 
It appears from the report in the Telegraph that the NHS in hospitals had so called super spreaders in the form of porters and cleaners , who in the course of their duties and out of an undoubted desire to help others , have inadvertently spread covid throughout them. You will know yourself the efforts all staff went to to prevent this , yet it appears it occurred . The staff in care homes I’m sure did the best they could without being armed with all the information that is now becoming available . 
Is it resource lead ? If it was you’d expect the death rates to be less in the council run homes ? Alas the death rate in Scottish council care homes is worse than in private or the voluntary sector ( 172/163/143 per 1000 respectively) 
The blame culture is I’m afraid all pervasive wrt all branches of medicine and care and is on the increase . Let’s not add fuel to this phenomenon and wait for the inevitable enquiry and learn from it . 

No care home has ever been “forced” to accept patients . They chose to take them and put profits before the health and we’ll being of their staff and residents. Even if they had been forced - if “wee Nicola” had went round and frogmarched them in at gunpoint with the Black Watch backing her up, care homes could and should’ve isolated their new residents until it was clear that they didn’t have the virus. End of story. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Zorro said:

It’s interesting that your pal, Ian Murray, also throws about the accusation the Scottish government “f**ked up” with care homes, but doesn’t mention that he received campaign funding from a care home group. I suppose it suits some people’s narrative to suggest that the Scottish government were responsible for care homes failing to follow standard infection control protocols, but it could not be further from the truth. The care homes had a duty of care to their residents and they have failed them spectacularly. They are now s**t scared they’re going to be financially liable for the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of residents and they’re using their paid lackeys to try and shift the blame. That’s the truth

I really wish everybody, Mr Murray included would just lay off the finger pointing here. It really is like watching both sides of the Infirm blaming each other for sectarian problems.

You say nobody was "forced" to take patients. However I am fairly certain arms would be subtly twisted because everybody was terrified the hospitals would not have space. To put the entirety of the  blame on the care homes for taking untested patients when they did not have isolation protocals and PPE really over simplifies things to align with your own agenda. Just like Murry blaming the Government. 

The Government were panicking, they didn't have testing, the didn't have space, papers from Westminster said the risk was low and they made what turned out to be a bad decision.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

I really wish everybody, Mr Murray included would just lay off the finger pointing here. It really is like watching both sides of the Infirm blaming each other for sectarian problems.

You say nobody was "forced" to take patients. However I am fairly certain arms would be subtly twisted because everybody was terrified the hospitals would not have space. To put the entirety of the  blame on the care homes for taking untested patients when they did not have isolation protocals and PPE really over simplifies things to align with your own agenda. Just like Murry blaming the Government. 

The Government were panicking, they didn't have testing, the didn't have space, papers from Westminster said the risk was low and they made what turned out to be a bad decision.

 

 

Isolation protocols? Do you think hanging a complex sounding name, on very simple practices, makes it sound like this was beyond the capabilities of care homes? We’re talking about transferring a resident to their new room.Getting staff to wear gloves, apron and mask anytime they’re in contact with the new resident. Disposing of PPE after leaving the new residents room. Hand hygiene and cleaning. Then wait. 

Out of interest, when would you have tested patients before transferring them? 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

Care home industry magazine says it woz somebody else’s fault. In other news Rangers media say Celtics nine in a row is tainted and the Celtic view say rangers cheated to get theirs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Zorro said:

Isolation protocols? Do you think hanging a complex sounding name, on very simple practices, makes it sound like this was beyond the capabilities of care homes? We’re talking about transferring a resident to their new room.Getting staff to wear gloves, apron and mask anytime they’re in contact with the new resident. Disposing of PPE after leaving the new residents room. Hand hygiene and cleaning. Then wait. 

Out of interest, when would you have tested patients before transferring them? 
 

 

They should have had a covid-19 test before being discharged because a hospital is a high risk environment and a care home is a place with multiple vulnerable people. As I understand it that did not happen. In that case the care homes should have then put every discharged patient into 14 day isolation.

Ian Murray seems to be saying they should never have been asked to do that and had their arms twisted by the Scottish Government. 

You seem to be implying they should have been able to cope or they should have refused to take people. But they took them when they knew they could not cope simply to make money.  

I believe there will have been arm twisting and cash registers ringing but none of that would have happened if the government had not been panicking because of the unknown nature of the problem. And to blame the whole thing on nothing but greed is an over simplification.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Care home industry magazine says it woz somebody else’s fault. In other news Rangers media say Celtics nine in a row is tainted and the Celtic view say rangers cheated to get theirs. 

As I said watching this unsavoury mud slinging is like watching both halves of the Infirm blaming the other for sectarianism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

They should have had a covid-19 test before being discharged because a hospital is a high risk environment and a care home is a place with multiple vulnerable people. As I understand it that did not happen. In that case the care homes should have then put every discharged patient into 14 day isolation.

They could’ve had a negative COVID-19 test moments before discharge and still have been positive. The only effective strategy would’ve been to isolate on arrival. 

23 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

Ian Murray seems to be saying they should never have been asked to do that and had their arms twisted by the Scottish Government. 
 

Ian Murray is a proven liar. 

23 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

You seem to be implying they should have been able to cope or they should have refused to take people. But they took them when they knew they could not cope simply to make money.  
 

I’m not implying. I’m stating for a fact that a huge number of care home deaths would’ve been prevented if the care homes had taken the correct precautions. 

23 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

I believe there will have been arm twisting and cash registers ringing but none of that would have happened if the government had not been panicking because of the unknown nature of the problem. And to blame the whole thing on nothing but greed is an over simplification.

 

The whole U.K. response to this pandemic has been driven by greed, why would care homes response be any different? This is what happens when healthcare is done by accountants. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

As I said watching this unsavoury mud slinging is like watching both halves of the Infirm blaming the other for sectarianism.

It’s not mud slinging, it’s trying to muddy the waters. This didn’t require complex solutions. There were simple protocols to deal with this outbreak. New Zealand is a prime example of how to do it right. The U.K. response has been a shambles which totally ignored the science. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Zorro said:

This is what happens when healthcare is done by accountants. 

This we can agree on . 
 

As an older medical consultant confided to me years ago “never let doctors near the purse strings , they inevitably overspend on the wrong things “ . He was referring to the 50’s-70’s era and was quoting from experience :) 

I guess there must be a middle ground somewhere 

Edited by Bonbon19
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So test patients before discharge would’ve sorted the issue out???

lets see, the test is at best 70% accurate, and that’s before you consider everyone of those discharged who may have had COVID would have been a symptomatic.

over simplification being used to point fingers at the Scot Govt by unionists to detract from the horrendous decision made by their beloved UK overlords

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

So test patients before discharge would’ve sorted the issue out???

lets see, the test is at best 70% accurate, and that’s before you consider everyone of those discharged who may have had COVID would have been a symptomatic.

over simplification being used to point fingers at the Scot Govt by unionists to detract from the horrendous decision made by their beloved UK overlords

The very same decisions taken by Holyrood . 
 

all govts are to blame for this 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...