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10 hours ago, Shropshire_killie said:

With my greatest respect Zorro. You are wrong. This is a virus that care homes simply don't and did not and continue to not have the expertise to deal with. I would argue Care homes would not be well aware how to deal with a virus of this nature and certainly not have the equipment/protection required. We are hearing today the virus may be airborne.

How do you explain care homes with zero deaths? Can't be down to just dumb luck.

I saw news reports early on that some care homes were going their own way to get ready because they could see what was coming but couldn't trust what info they were getting from Westminster and PHE.

Good care homes will look ahead and have procedures and equipment they can bring into use quickly, bad ones won't. It doesn't come down to how much you pay for care, more how much the bosses are taking out the business.

Edited by Scooter
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Care homes do not carry the whole can though,  Westminster and other bodies you expect to know what they're doing have been a complete shambles while being paid handsomely out the public purse, as this (quite long) Reuters report points out...

Into the fog: How Britain lost track of the coronavirus

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-britain-tracing/

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3 hours ago, Zorro said:

Exactly this. 

I really cant get my head around the fact that you are shocked  that private enterprise is driven by profit. The instant you put out elderly care to the private sector its all about profit. It has always been about profit. This crisis has just made that uncomfortable fact hard to hide.

My question is whose fault is it that it is all about profit? How can it be the fault of bodies whose very purpose us to make profit making a profit. Bodies, the success of which is judged on how much profit they make.

In my own job if someone comes up with a brilluant way to meet our customers needs  and somebody else comes up with something we can charge the customer a fortune for who gets the promotion?

Edited by gdevoy
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2 hours ago, Scooter said:

How do you explain care homes with zero deaths? Can't be down to just dumb luck.

I saw news reports early on that some care homes were going their own way to get ready because they could see what was coming but couldn't trust what info they were getting from Westminster and PHE.

Good care homes will look ahead and have procedures and equipment they can bring into use quickly, bad ones won't. It doesn't come down to how much you pay for care, more how much the bosses are taking out the business.

Fair comment Scooter and Zorro. Think it's a complex matter and pretty clear the govt downplayed the care home risk so lots of them probably did not seem to be as sharp as others. I'll go back to a remark made to me that in a certain care home the policy was not to wear a mask unless there was an outbreak. Profits obviously come into it but you've got to make an allowance for low paid unskilled workers coupled with what seems s**te guidance from govt. Care home yesterday reported they needed 400 masks a week and got 50. Another element was also if care staff fell ill, then agency staff had to come in. I know a few care homes completely locked down with staff staying on site but that would have been impossible for many staff with families etc. I guess there will always be the Rolls Royce's of care homes out there and the Fiat 500's. Root of the cause for me was govt failures on many fronts. 

Edited by Shropshire_killie
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1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

I really cant get my head around the fact that you are shocked  that private enterprise is driven by profit. The instant you put out elderly care to the private sector its all about profit. It has always been about profit. This crisis has just made that uncomfortable fact hard to hide.

My question is whose fault is it that it is all about profit? How can it be the fault of bodies whose very purpose us to make profit making a profit. Bodies, the success of which is judged on how much profit they make.

I can’t get my head around why you are willing to let people who’ve put profit before safety off scot-free. 

1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

In my own job if someone comes up with a brilluant way to meet our customers needs  and somebody else comes up with something we can charge the customer a fortune for who gets the promotion?

What happens when the more expensive idea doesn’t work and isn’t fit for purpose? Do you blame the government?

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1 hour ago, Zorro said:

I can’t get my head around why you are willing to let people who’ve put profit before safety off scot-free. 

I maybe would not go as far as scot-free.

 

1 hour ago, Zorro said:

What happens when the more expensive idea doesn’t work and isn’t fit for purpose? Do you blame the government?

Do you think I am going to get a promotion fir telling a customer they are wasting their money?

We charge the customer more to fix it. Its capitalism at its finest. We leave the meeja to blame the government.

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2 hours ago, Shropshire_killie said:

Fair comment Scooter and Zorro. Think it's a complex matter and pretty clear the govt downplayed the care home risk so lots of them probably did not seem to be as sharp as others. I'll go back to a remark made to me that in a certain care home the policy was not to wear a mask unless there was an outbreak. Profits obviously come into it but you've got to make an allowance for low paid unskilled workers coupled with what seems s**te guidance from govt. Care home yesterday reported they needed 400 masks a week and got 50. Another element was also if care staff fell ill, then agency staff had to come in. I know a few care homes completely locked down with staff staying on site but that would have been impossible for many staff with families etc. I guess there will always be the Rolls Royce's of care homes out there and the Fiat 500's. Root of the cause for me was govt failures on many fronts. 

You’re correct it’s a complex matter and maybe if you’ve never owned and run a medical or care enterprise you can’t really grasp the difficulties involved ethically  , morally and  financially   The number of providers who set out to deliberately maximise their profits at the expense of their patients is IMO and experience very very small . They do exist and are sometimes difficult to detect especially if they are taking NHS money as the administration of these budgets are not governed adequately. Most of these enterprises or entities work hard and provide great service , some fall short sometimes and when this is picked up help is available . Believe me treating the general public is not easy sometimes ;) .And it’s made all the more difficult when govts give poor advice . 
No ones blaming hospitals for covid deaths ( at the moment ) for practices that may have  spread it inadvertently throughout them ie porters cleaners etc , and rightly so IMO . Because in the early stages no one really understood what we were dealing with , all sectors were doing their best . The govts all had their advisors and experts feeding into guidelines that have proven to be inadequate at best . 

 

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Not satisfied with the Brexit clusterf**k and the worst Eurooean death toll from covid-19 it now looks like BoJo is steering us into a new Huawei s**tstorm.

To be completely fair to BoJo this one is really down to Hilda. She introduced the concept that you dont need to build anything you just need enough wonga to buy it.

We then gave up intelectual ownership of technology and tried to just buy stuff from the US. The problem there is they only sell 2nd rate s**t abroad and keep the best stuff for themselves. So we came up with the cunning plan of buying from the Chineese and here we are now unable to upgrade without their help. And unable to maintain the current network without their help.

The US want the Chineese out so the can flog us their 2nd rate crap.   A number of Sir Bufton Tufton types in the Tory party want the Chineese out so their chums can get their hands on the data. The Chineese are going to be mightily pissed off at getting thrown out and not getting access to UK infrastructure and data. And if we do throw the Chineese out not only will we be 10 years behind with the upgrade but our current mobile system will probably collapse. 

Over ti you Boris.

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1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

Not satisfied with the Brexit clusterf**k and the worst Eurooean death toll from covid-19 it now looks like BoJo is steering us into a new Huawei s**tstorm.

To be completely fair to BoJo this one is really down to Hilda. She introduced the concept that you dont need to build anything you just need enough wonga to buy it.

We then gave up intelectual ownership of technology and tried to just buy stuff from the US. The problem there is they only sell 2nd rate s**t abroad and keep the best stuff for themselves. So we came up with the cunning plan of buying from the Chineese and here we are now unable to upgrade without their help. And unable to maintain the current network without their help.

The US want the Chineese out so the can flog us their 2nd rate crap.   A number of Sir Bufton Tufton types in the Tory party want the Chineese out so their chums can get their hands on the data. The Chineese are going to be mightily pissed off at getting thrown out and not getting access to UK infrastructure and data. And if we do throw the Chineese out not only will we be 10 years behind with the upgrade but our current mobile system will probably collapse. 

Over ti you Boris.

The Chinese will be quaking in their boots when we confront them with one of our new aircraft carriers..... Diversion from Brexit has commenced....I seea lso it will likely have US Marine Corps fighter jets on it. So the recipe ingredients will all be there, stray missiles  "accidents" n all that... 

Edited by Shropshire_killie
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3 hours ago, Shropshire_killie said:

The Chinese will be quaking in their boots when we confront them with one of our new aircraft carriers..... Diversion from Brexit has commenced....I seea lso it will likely have US Marine Corps fighter jets on it. So the recipe ingredients will all be there, stray missiles  "accidents" n all that... 

Has that Eton Tosser not resigned yet?

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3 hours ago, Shropshire_killie said:

The Chinese will be quaking in their boots when we confront them with one of our new aircraft carriers..... Diversion from Brexit has commenced....I seea lso it will likely have US Marine Corps fighter jets on it. So the recipe ingredients will all be there, stray missiles  "accidents" n all that... 

We have the carriers but cant affoard the planes. 

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5 hours ago, gdevoy said:

Not satisfied with the Brexit clusterf**k and the worst Eurooean death toll from covid-19 it now looks like BoJo is steering us into a new Huawei s**tstorm.

The US want the Chineese out so the can flog us their 2nd rate crap.   A number of Sir Bufton Tufton types in the Tory party want the Chineese out so their chums can get their hands on the data. 

Oh well, was hoping my mask would protect me from the 5G rays! 9_9

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What is the precise problem with Huawei? Security risk? Like the Iraqi WMD's?  It seems more a case of, we have burnt our bridges with Europe, we better side with someone, oh lets see our American "friends", albeit, we know they wont give a flying s**t about us and will know we are desperate for a deal, any deal, a s**t deal, just give us a deal. Look at the probs our whisky distillers are having already. Chlorinated chicken and other s**te will be on the way soon. Johnson = Trumps tool.

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27 minutes ago, Shropshire_killie said:

What is the precise problem with Huawei? Security risk? Like the Iraqi WMD's?  It seems more a case of, we have burnt our bridges with Europe, we better side with someone, oh lets see our American "friends", albeit, we know they wont give a flying s**t about us and will know we are desperate for a deal, any deal, a s**t deal, just give us a deal. Look at the probs our whisky distillers are having already. Chlorinated chicken and other s**te will be on the way soon. Johnson = Trumps tool.

The Americans are not our friends. They are no more trustworthy or easy to do business with than the Chineese. The would shaft the UK in an instant uf they thought it was in their best interests. 

If only there was somewhere closer to us culturally and physically that we could do business with ...  oh wait.

 

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8 hours ago, gdevoy said:

The US want the Chineese out so the can flog us their 2nd rate crap.  

The same hardware level security back door/vulnerabilities they worry about on 5G, exist on almost every CPU manufactured in the last 20 years, regardless of platform.(spectre & meltdown if u google it)

Seems odd folk aren't told every device you use, mobile or PC, has same fundamental exploits at a hardware level they worry about with the Chinese 5G. Any American back door is most probably one we'll have the key to - that won't be the case with Chinese technology.  With Hong Kong situation, we should tell them to F off anyway.  This is small fry, mobile phone masts, compared to the Chinese involvemnet in Nuclear power stations.  If Chinese tech is potentially dodgy in mobile phone masts, seems idiotic (in England) the UK gov. got them involved in Nuclear power FFS!!!

 

Edited by RAG
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2 hours ago, RAG said:

The same hardware level security back door/vulnerabilities they worry about on 5G, exist on almost every CPU manufactured in the last 20 years, regardless of platform.(spectre & meltdown if u google it)

Seems odd folk aren't told every device you use, mobile or PC, has same fundamental exploits at a hardware level they worry about with the Chinese 5G. Any American back door is most probably one we'll have the key to - that won't be the case with Chinese technology.  With Hong Kong situation, we should tell them to F off anyway.  This is small fry, mobile phone masts, compared to the Chinese involvemnet in Nuclear power stations.  If Chinese tech is potentially dodgy in mobile phone masts, seems idiotic (in England) the UK gov. got them involved in Nuclear power FFS!!!

 

I agree 100% with the above.

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8 hours ago, Shropshire_killie said:

What is the precise problem with Huawei?

Are you using a 'smartphone'? Then the liklihood is someone somewhere is spying on you ...whether it be texts or emails, marketing habits, pictures, facial recognition, etc.

For me it's all about power and control. China still has a lack of soft power and international image problems but the 5Eyes countries will not take kindly to them becoming big players in the spying game, a game they've been pros at for years, monitoring private communications worldwide.

That's the US, Australia & UK banned Huawei, won't be long till New Zealand & Canada follow, and then perhaps India. 

 At least the Chinese still have TikTok to see what the proles are up to. 

Edited by Scooter
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  • 2 weeks later...
7 minutes ago, Shropshire_killie said:

Where is the Eton tosser hiding north of the border? Any walkabouts with the public? Thought not.

He is apparently going to Orkney  no doubt to stir up  indeoendence for Shetland and Orkney nonsense, while he is claiming credit for a joint support package for the islands,  which is meant to be 50/50, but the UK has promised 40!

Still absolutely pennies compared to the deals parts of England are supposedly getting.

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1 hour ago, Beaker71 said:

He is apparently going to Orkney  no doubt to stir up  indeoendence for Shetland and Orkney nonsense, while he is claiming credit for a joint support package for the islands,  which is meant to be 50/50, but the UK has promised 40!

Still absolutely pennies compared to the deals parts of England are supposedly getting.

It does stink of him bumbling up with his purse open as if that will make how we feel about him better. It seems all we hear these days is multi million pounds going here, there and everywhere, as if that covers up the disaster of mismanagement of the crisis and Brexit coming up fast. Those taken in by that then more fool them. So he is in Orkney. What a joke. 

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