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Zorro

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29 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

He might browbeat me after you’ve browbeaten some of your nationalist  mates  for their crazy comments......he’ll will freeze over first, though. The only people you will browbeat are anyone on here who doesn’t think the sun shines out if the SNP’s @rse and that the Great Leader cannot be questioned. Unusually, we have a few people at the moment not slavishly following the a Party Line, which must be difficult for you. I’m sure you’ll soon browbeat them to death, though, and they’ll quietly disappear, bored senseless by your smart arsery and you’ll have your wee SNP one party forum back again. Once again, not a single article questioning The Party or Queen Nicola will be anywhere to be seen. 
 

 

And yet I’ve started two recent threads highlighting alleged SNP wrongdoings. Didn’t notice any from you regarding  Labours institutionalised anti-Semitic behaviour or their suspended candidates though.  

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2 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

He might browbeat me after you’ve browbeaten some of your nationalist  mates  for their crazy comments......he’ll will freeze over first, though. The only people you will browbeat are anyone on here who doesn’t think the sun shines out if the SNP’s @rse and that the Great Leader cannot be questioned. Unusually, we have a few people at the moment not slavishly following the a Party Line, which must be difficult for you. I’m sure you’ll soon browbeat them to death, though, and they’ll quietly disappear, bored senseless by your smart arsery and you’ll have your wee SNP one party forum back again. Once again, not a single article questioning The Party or Queen Nicola will be anywhere to be seen. 

 

Just as this Forum seems very averse to finding anything to set off alarm bells about the SNP's handling of the health service or education or their "unicorns for all" financial plan for independence, the BBC seem resolutely averse to questioning anything about the position of the Tory Party.

The guy proposed as the next prime minister is a total simpleton that the folks pulling the strings are desperately trying to keep away from public scrutiny. Watching him running scared of Andrew Neil is getting embarrassing. The post EU trading arrangements being proposed are more "unicorns for all" Some of their Facebook and Twitter "Fake News" adverts are again embarrassing but the BBC wont have a word spoken against them. All they want to do is focus on what a Jew hater Corbyn is. And the fact that, if democratically elected, he may form an abomination of an alliance with the also democratically elected leader of the SNP. I mean, for heaven sake we can't have people leading the country who have been democratically elected now can we? Where will it end? 

Echo chambers here, echo chambers there, echo chambers everywhere. 

 

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3 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

bored senseless by Zorro completely schooling me at every turn

FTFY

It's pretty amusing that you accuse the SNP of this "party line" pish.  Every single labour politician that's appeared for interview in the last few weeks has tied themselves in knots trying to tow the party line.

"We will not pick a side in any future peoples vote - we must let the people decide.  It's not the job of politicians blah blah blah"

"Another scottish independence referendum?  No chance - how f**king dare those jocks have democracy"

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1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

Just as this Forum seems very averse to finding anything to set off alarm bells about the SNP's handling of the health service or education or their "unicorns for all" financial plan for independence, the BBC seem resolutely averse to questioning anything about the position of the Tory Party.

The guy proposed as the next prime minister is a total simpleton that the folks pulling the strings are desperately trying to keep away from public scrutiny. Watching him running scared of Andrew Neil is getting embarrassing. The post EU trading arrangements being proposed are more "unicorns for all" Some of their Facebook and Twitter "Fake News" adverts are again embarrassing but the BBC wont have a word spoken against them. All they want to do is focus on what a Jew hater Corbyn is. And the fact that, if democratically elected, he may form an abomination of an alliance with the also democratically elected leader of the SNP. I mean, for heaven sake we can't have people leading the country who have been democratically elected now can we? Where will it end? 

Echo chambers here, echo chambers there, echo chambers everywhere. 

 

Wonder how much money they are paying that Gollum character pulling the strings for for that Eton dickhead

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9 hours ago, Zorro said:

Status quo literally means “ the same state of affairs”. There’s no spin on it. In this instance it means a Tory government pursing a hard or no deal Brexit. That’s what you are voting for by voting unionist. I know you’ve said you like “pick n mix” politics, but you only get to pick one thing here. It’s stay in the Eu or stay in the union. You can’t have both. 
 

I have no problem with economic unions. I like the benefits of being a member of the Eu and I’d hope an independent Scotland would have an economic union with our closest neighbours. That doesn’t mean I think all of our neighbours should get to set our budget or how we spend our tax revenue. Scotland is politically different from the rUK. We vote differently. We have different priorities. It is undemocratic to ignore that. It’s also politically illiterate to suggest that under the current political settlement, the Scottish government can spend what they like on health and education. 
 

l loved your story about your sons. I especially liked the bit where you still have good relations with them even though they choose to be independent. Just out of interest, do you still tell them what they can spend their earnings on and have either of them ever expressed a will to return under the comfort of your safety blanket?

So to be clear again as you seem to delight in dissecting every word posted and an unwillingness to accept an interpretation of said word unless it suits you ,  I’m comfortable with the the way things are run now which was what I meant with the words status quo , but you already knew that . I’m not comfortable with the result but that’s democracy for you . And your wrong , you can stay in the EU and in the Union , you either vote Labour or Lib Dem , as I’m certain as anyone can be that if either win , and it’s a stretch ,one will influence/push the vote to remain and the others manifesto demands it .

As for neighbours influencing spending the EUs demands on Scotland when and if it applies , for instance on getting the deficit down , will be far greater than the UK’s. You’ll counter this by saying but at least we’ll have our independence , but at what cost to the nation ? That’s a question you can’t answer because no one knows .

Why  are we politically different ? Because we negotiated these terms with the U.K. government  no ones ignored that , and we could negotiate better terms in the future . No ones put forward the question , does Scotland want greater autonomy and control of its powers ? The nationalists are all or nothing , Perhaps the majority would be more willing to support this notion ? It’s also not illiterate to state that the Scottish government has complete control over the matters we’re  discussing its factual , they chose as I mentioned previously to copy the U.K. formula in healthcare provision , with the possible  exception of GDP dental services , and spend more per capita without imo  proper consideration wrt rural areas , older population , higher death rates , difficult social problems etc . I was involved in one such local discussion with the CHPs which met for one meeting to discuss the way forward , there was genuine excitement at the possibilities only for the Scottish Office to pull the plug . 

Part 3 of the zorro/Bonbon19 family saga 

Of course we have no control over how they spend there own money , they can spend an appropriate portion of their earnings as they see fit as their mum and dad worked hard  at instilling the maxim , don’t live beyond your means . They’re  also aware that should they get into difficulties Mum and Dad will bail them out , no question , a stance we’ve taken on a few occasions early on in their careers . Unfortunately we’ve had to provide the safety blanket of a return to base for our youngest when a marriage failed , it’s an unconditional service all parents and those that care for you will offer unreservedly 

Edited by Bonbon19
Mixed up my committees
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8 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

So to be clear again as you seem to delight in dissecting every word posted and an unwillingness to accept an interpretation of said word unless it suits you ,  I’m comfortable with the the way things are run now which was what I meant with the words status quo , but you already knew that . I’m not comfortable with the result but that’s democracy for you . And your wrong , you can stay in the EU and in the Union , you either vote Labour or Lib Dem , as I’m certain as anyone can be that if either win , and it’s a stretch ,one will influence/push the vote to remain and the others manifesto demands it .

As for neighbours influencing spending the EUs demands on Scotland when and if it applies , for instance on getting the deficit down , will be far greater than the UK’s. You’ll counter this by saying but at least we’ll have our independence , but at what cost to the nation ? That’s a question you can’t answer because no one knows .

Why  are we politically different ? Because we negotiated these terms with the U.K. government  no ones ignored that , and we could negotiate better terms in the future . No ones put forward the question , does Scotland want greater autonomy and control of its powers ? The nationalists are all or nothing , Perhaps the majority would be more willing to support this notion ? It’s also not illiterate to state that the Scottish government has complete control over the matters we’re  discussing its factual , they chose as I mentioned previously to copy the U.K. formula in healthcare provision , with the possible  exception of GDP dental services , and spend more per capita without imo  proper consideration wrt rural areas , older population , higher death rates , difficult social problems etc . I was involved in one such local discussion with the LHCC which met for one meeting to discuss the way forward , there was genuine excitement at the possibilities only for the Scottish Office to pull the plug . 

Part 3 of the zorro/Bonbon19 family saga 

Of course we have no control over how they spend there own money , they can spend an appropriate portion of their earnings as they see fit as their mum and dad worked hard  at instilling the maxim , don’t live beyond your means . They’re  also aware that should they get into difficulties Mum and Dad will bail them out , no question , a stance we’ve taken on a few occasions early on in their careers . Unfortunately we’ve had to provide the safety blanket of a return to base for our youngest when a marriage failed , it’s an unconditional service all parents and those that care for you will offer unreservedly 

This statement is too sensible

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41 minutes ago, killie1961 said:

This statement is too sensible

Why because it supports you ideology of mummy knows best?

Personally I think it paints a picture purely from a unionist slant and maybe if we give them a bit more they will get back in their box and we can still claim to be an empire perspective.

It's like comment of independence is forever,  of course it is that's the point.  Any union in which one party gets put gifted EVERY single time isnt a union, you guys are simply too stubborn to see it.

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2 hours ago, Bonbon19 said:

So to be clear again as you seem to delight in dissecting every word posted and an unwillingness to accept an interpretation of said word unless it suits you ,  I’m comfortable with the the way things are run now which was what I meant with the words status quo , but you already knew that . I’m not comfortable with the result but that’s democracy for you . And your wrong , you can stay in the EU and in the Union , you either vote Labour or Lib Dem , as I’m certain as anyone can be that if either win , and it’s a stretch ,one will influence/push the vote to remain and the others manifesto demands it .

As for neighbours influencing spending the EUs demands on Scotland when and if it applies , for instance on getting the deficit down , will be far greater than the UK’s. You’ll counter this by saying but at least we’ll have our independence , but at what cost to the nation ? That’s a question you can’t answer because no one knows .

Why  are we politically different ? Because we negotiated these terms with the U.K. government  no ones ignored that , and we could negotiate better terms in the future . No ones put forward the question , does Scotland want greater autonomy and control of its powers ? The nationalists are all or nothing , Perhaps the majority would be more willing to support this notion ? It’s also not illiterate to state that the Scottish government has complete control over the matters we’re  discussing its factual , they chose as I mentioned previously to copy the U.K. formula in healthcare provision , with the possible  exception of GDP dental services , and spend more per capita without imo  proper consideration wrt rural areas , older population , higher death rates , difficult social problems etc . I was involved in one such local discussion with the CHPs which met for one meeting to discuss the way forward , there was genuine excitement at the possibilities only for the Scottish Office to pull the plug . 

Part 3 of the zorro/Bonbon19 family saga 

Of course we have no control over how they spend there own money , they can spend an appropriate portion of their earnings as they see fit as their mum and dad worked hard  at instilling the maxim , don’t live beyond your means . They’re  also aware that should they get into difficulties Mum and Dad will bail them out , no question , a stance we’ve taken on a few occasions early on in their careers . Unfortunately we’ve had to provide the safety blanket of a return to base for our youngest when a marriage failed , it’s an unconditional service all parents and those that care for you will offer unreservedly 

Ok, back here on planet Earth only the Tories are going to win this election. The ship SS Staying in the Eu has sailed and given the carnage Brexit will wreck on the economy, I doubt the Eu will be that keen on allowing the U.K. rejoin until they get their deficit under control. 
 

We aren’t politically different from the U.K. “because we negotiated these terms”, we’re different because we have different values and are more politically engaged. Brexit is a great example of this. Two thirds of Scottish residents, across all the major political parties, were able to weigh up the pros and cons and conclude leaving was a stupid idea. Ask your average Brexiteers down south why they voted leave and they’ll mumble something about taking back control. Push them on how that’ll improve their lives and you may get a reply about unelected bureaucrats and fantasy figures of money. If you get an honest one, and you’ll know them by their knuckles dragging on the floor, they’ll concede it’s about immigration. 
 

I could’ve sworn you said you worked in the health sector. If you do you should know we spend almost £200 per person more on health than they do in England. We spend 20% more on public services. Things we take for granted like free prescriptions and free personal care are the ideas the rUK parties now aspire to in their manifestos. 

It sounds like you have a very healthy relationship with your family. How would you describe a relationship where the parents said “if you leave, don’t come running back to us”, “there’s no coming back”, “this means a barrier between us which tears the family apart” or “we know we used to buy stuff of you but if you leave that’ll stop”?
 

 

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2 hours ago, Zorro said:

Ok, back here on planet Earth only the Tories are going to win this election. The ship SS Staying in the Eu has sailed and given the carnage Brexit will wreck on the economy, I doubt the Eu will be that keen on allowing the U.K. rejoin until they get their deficit under control. 
 

We aren’t politically different from the U.K. “because we negotiated these terms”, we’re different because we have different values and are more politically engaged. Brexit is a great example of this. Two thirds of Scottish residents, across all the major political parties, were able to weigh up the pros and cons and conclude leaving was a stupid idea. Ask your average Brexiteers down south why they voted leave and they’ll mumble something about taking back control. Push them on how that’ll improve their lives and you may get a reply about unelected bureaucrats and fantasy figures of money. If you get an honest one, and you’ll know them by their knuckles dragging on the floor, they’ll concede it’s about immigration. 
 

I could’ve sworn you said you worked in the health sector. If you do you should know we spend almost £200 per person more on health than they do in England. We spend 20% more on public services. Things we take for granted like free prescriptions and free personal care are the ideas the rUK parties now aspire to in their manifestos. 

It sounds like you have a very healthy relationship with your family. How would you describe a relationship where the parents said “if you leave, don’t come running back to us”, “there’s no coming back”, “this means a barrier between us which tears the family apart” or “we know we used to buy stuff of you but if you leave that’ll stop”?
 

 

The Tories are more likely to win but will it be with a working majority? And is that the U.K. deficit at 1.9% compared to Scotland’s 7% ? Iirc the cut off point is 3 % to join the EU and since we were the 3rd biggest contributor,,Im comfortable that a deal could be struck should it be necessary , unless you don’t want that scenario to play out? 

And your portrayal of the majority of the English as knuckledraggers is as accurate as the majority of SNP voters as rabid William Wallace’s .rampaging through the countryside with blue faces and kilts . It fits your agenda . The Scottish people also weighed up the pros and cons of independence and with a far greater majority than Brexit rejected it , does that make them traitors or politically astute ? . More people in London by numbers  voted to remain than in Scotland I’m sure they’ll be chuffed to learn of your characterisation . And until we get a 2nd referendum on Brexit we’ll never know how the majority of the U.K. population feel . The GE isn’t going to deliver a de facto result on that question , people vote differently in GEs there’s no tactical voting in a referendum. 
 

I worked in the health sector that does indeed spend more per head on health , the same sector that hasn’t met 6 or is it 7 out of the 8 targets set by the SNP govt ? That’s an appalling record for such a massive investment don’t you think ? That’s why I don’t trust the SNP party with health or other sectors of the economy as they've shown they can’t deliver when they’ve been given more than anyone else in the UK .

As for your last point , no parent worth their salt would ever say such a thing , and to try and assert that this would be the case here  is scaremongering of knuckledragging proportions . Not one political party has stated that would be the case as far as I’m aware . What I believe has been stated is that there would have to be an altering of the relationship which is quite natural wrt business , financial and other arrangements . Always remembering that it is Scotland that would be altering the goalposts . Your not seriously trying to argue that if Scotland gained independence the rest of the U.K. would stop trading with us ? It would change but when you and your neighbour are more than likely each other’s best/biggest  trading partners it’s folly to suggest one party would cut off their nose to spite the other .

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8 hours ago, Bonbon19 said:

The Tories are more likely to win but will it be with a working majority? And is that the U.K. deficit at 1.9% compared to Scotland’s 7% ? Iirc the cut off point is 3 % to join the EU and since we were the 3rd biggest contributor,,Im comfortable that a deal could be struck should it be necessary , unless you don’t want that scenario to play out? 

And your portrayal of the majority of the English as knuckledraggers is as accurate as the majority of SNP voters as rabid William Wallace’s .rampaging through the countryside with blue faces and kilts . It fits your agenda . The Scottish people also weighed up the pros and cons of independence and with a far greater majority than Brexit rejected it , does that make them traitors or politically astute ? . More people in London by numbers  voted to remain than in Scotland I’m sure they’ll be chuffed to learn of your characterisation . And until we get a 2nd referendum on Brexit we’ll never know how the majority of the U.K. population feel . The GE isn’t going to deliver a de facto result on that question , people vote differently in GEs there’s no tactical voting in a referendum. 
 

I worked in the health sector that does indeed spend more per head on health , the same sector that hasn’t met 6 or is it 7 out of the 8 targets set by the SNP govt ? That’s an appalling record for such a massive investment don’t you think ? That’s why I don’t trust the SNP party with health or other sectors of the economy as they've shown they can’t deliver when they’ve been given more than anyone else in the UK .

As for your last point , no parent worth their salt would ever say such a thing , and to try and assert that this would be the case here  is scaremongering of knuckledragging proportions . Not one political party has stated that would be the case as far as I’m aware . What I believe has been stated is that there would have to be an altering of the relationship which is quite natural wrt business , financial and other arrangements . Always remembering that it is Scotland that would be altering the goalposts . Your not seriously trying to argue that if Scotland gained independence the rest of the U.K. would stop trading with us ? It would change but when you and your neighbour are more than likely each other’s best/biggest  trading partners it’s folly to suggest one party would cut off their nose to spite the other .

Dear oh dear, a McLean like "SNP bad Scotland canny" post wrapped up politely.

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23 hours ago, Zorro said:

And yet I’ve started two recent threads highlighting alleged SNP wrongdoings. Didn’t notice any from you regarding  Labours institutionalised anti-Semitic behaviour or their suspended candidates though.  

You started then to take the heat out of them. Good politics, old chap :) I have acknowledged the cultist Corbynites and they are a mirror image of the cult element in the SNP. I cannot help but think that the issue has been weaponised my the tories and their media friends and I am not sure Corbyn could do or say anything to placate them. I definitely believe that, overall, the tories are more racist than Labour by a mile and indeed their leader has openly expressed racist, classist, mysoginystic views, but largely gets away with it because he is “Boris”. I don’t know BonBon from Adam. But at least he brings a new and articulate voice to the forum and linking us is just playing the old Better Together game. Cheers! 

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10 hours ago, Bonbon19 said:

The Tories are more likely to win but will it be with a working majority? And is that the U.K. deficit at 1.9% compared to Scotland’s 7% ? Iirc the cut off point is 3 % to join the EU and since we were the 3rd biggest contributor,,Im comfortable that a deal could be struck should it be necessary , unless you don’t want that scenario to play out? 

And your portrayal of the majority of the English as knuckledraggers is as accurate as the majority of SNP voters as rabid William Wallace’s .rampaging through the countryside with blue faces and kilts . It fits your agenda . The Scottish people also weighed up the pros and cons of independence and with a far greater majority than Brexit rejected it , does that make them traitors or politically astute ? . More people in London by numbers  voted to remain than in Scotland I’m sure they’ll be chuffed to learn of your characterisation . And until we get a 2nd referendum on Brexit we’ll never know how the majority of the U.K. population feel . The GE isn’t going to deliver a de facto result on that question , people vote differently in GEs there’s no tactical voting in a referendum. 
 

I worked in the health sector that does indeed spend more per head on health , the same sector that hasn’t met 6 or is it 7 out of the 8 targets set by the SNP govt ? That’s an appalling record for such a massive investment don’t you think ? That’s why I don’t trust the SNP party with health or other sectors of the economy as they've shown they can’t deliver when they’ve been given more than anyone else in the UK .

As for your last point , no parent worth their salt would ever say such a thing , and to try and assert that this would be the case here  is scaremongering of knuckledragging proportions . Not one political party has stated that would be the case as far as I’m aware . What I believe has been stated is that there would have to be an altering of the relationship which is quite natural wrt business , financial and other arrangements . Always remembering that it is Scotland that would be altering the goalposts . Your not seriously trying to argue that if Scotland gained independence the rest of the U.K. would stop trading with us ? It would change but when you and your neighbour are more than likely each other’s best/biggest  trading partners it’s folly to suggest one party would cut off their nose to spite the other .

Every poll suggests a clear majority for the Tories so I think we can forget any ideas on us remaking in the Eu. Which brings us onto the deficit. Your suggestion we could simply rejoin once we’ve found out it’s killed the economy ignores several factors. Every respected economist say our GDP will tank. We’d need a party willing to countenance rejoining. At present the only party with a possibility of being in that position is labour. However to do that Labour would need to command a majority. Which brings us nicely to their spending commitments. Estimated cost of re-nationalising all the things they’ve suggested is £1.2 trillion. The IFS state their other spending commitments aren’t credible and they won’t raise the tax required to cover them.  Going forward, no chance of the deficit remaining anywhere near 1.9% in that scenario. Then even if they do admit us with a massively increased deficit, there’s no way they’ll give us back our previous favourable deal. 
 

On my portrayal of English Nationalists; if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. I’ve seen nothing to suggest the reasoning for the largest instance of national self-harm is driven by anything other than xenophobia and racism. Go on change my mind with the wonderful benefits of Brexit. 
 

If you’ve worked in healthcare you should know that the Scottish targets are more ambitious than the rUK’s and that we are outperforming the NHS in the other home countries. You’ll also be aware that their is different methodologies used in collecting the data in each country. For instance the 4 hour clock for A&E waiting times is measured differently between Scotland and England. Would you like to enlighten the other forum members which is the more honest version and which county is performing significantly better?

I’m glad we do agree on two things though. No parent should suggest these things, because it would be stopping to knuckled dragging levels, but that was exactly the U.K. governments position during the referendum. And not one party suggested it, it was actually all three major unionist parties working under the better together banner. 
 

I personally wouldn’t suggest there’d be any major change in our trading status, but that’s because I’m aware over 50% of our trade is in the sale of electricity (I’m gonna assume they still need that) and mortgages for English customers with Scottish banks. The majority of the rest is made up in trade for supermarkets.  I wasn’t running scare stories for better together though. 

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15 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

You started then to take the heat out of them. Good politics, old chap :) I have acknowledged the cultist Corbynites and they are a mirror image of the cult element in the SNP. I cannot help but think that the issue has been weaponised my the tories and their media friends and I am not sure Corbyn could do or say anything to placate them. I definitely believe that, overall, the tories are more racist than Labour by a mile and indeed their leader has openly expressed racist, classist, mysoginystic views, but largely gets away with it because he is “Boris”. I don’t know BonBon from Adam. But at least he brings a new and articulate voice to the forum and linking us is just playing the old Better Together game. Cheers! 

Sorry I don’t play the same games as you. If something needs called out, I’ll do it. I don’t disappear off the forum till it’s blown over or start throwing the nazi stuff around to deflect attention. 

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