Oxford bid for SOD

[Ayrshire Killie]

4 hours ago, Wee_Eck1979 said:

We only contract players till the end of May to save on wages, he is legally within his right to talk to anyone from November 31st. 

 

He wouldn’t get many calls on November 31st!

[Robert]

We have picked up some struggling players and they have come good under our watch . They then show no loyalty to our club . Yes it’s about money and I understand that but where would Jones or Sod be if we had not given them a chance . Sod has played within his self for months. Where’s the loyalty in that. Let him go now and have  some one who actually wants to play for us. 

[skygod]

12 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

For me once a PCA is signed then any player irrespective of who it is can do one.  This holds for any club anywhere, Messi, Ronaldo, SOD, (never thought inside those in the same sentence), any player.

If they can be moved on for a fee of any kind and forgoe their contractual entitlements then we get someone who doesn't want to be here and free up wages and some money to get someone who does.

It's not personal or questioning their professionalism but it means instead of someone who ultimately wants to work somewhere else , we have someone who is pulling in the same direction as everyone else.

What’s the difference between two players who want to leave Killie as soon as their contracts are up in the summer, one who doesn't care where he goes as long he gets away and one who has given himself the job security of fixing up a new club sometime between January and May? 

How does one “want to be here” more than the other? 

Do you seriously think that no one else whose contract expires in the summer “ultimately wants to work somewhere else”? 

People predict that Iain Wilson will be off in the summer but they don’t question his commitment while he is still here.

Yet if he agrees now to join another club in June he can immediately “do one”? 

What does “doing one” mean anyway? You want anyone who signs a PCA to “forego their contractual entitlements” so that it “frees up wages” for someone else? 

You want the club to unilaterally breach the player’s contract? 

I think you might have a players’ strike on your hands! 

The freedom of contract rules are what they are. Supporters have had long enough to learn to live with them but childish spite still seems rife against players who exercise their legal rights. 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by skygod

[NorfolkG]

8 minutes ago, skygod said:

What’s the difference between two players who want to leave Killie as soon as their contracts are up in the summer, one who doesn't care where he goes as long he gets away and one who has given himself the job security of fixing up a new club sometime between January and May? 

How does one “want to be here” more than the other? 

Do you seriously think that no one else whose contract expires in the summer “ultimately wants to work somewhere else”? 

People predict that Iain Wilson will be off in the summer but they don’t question his commitment while he is still here.

Yet if he agrees now to join another club in June he can immediately “do one”? 

What does “doing one” mean anyway? You want anyone who signs a PCA to “forego their contractual entitlements” so that it “frees up wages” for someone else? 

You want the club to unilaterally breach the player’s contract? 

I think you might have a players’ strike on your hands! 

The freedom of contract rules are what they are. Supporters have had long enough to learn to live with them but childish spite still seems rife against players who exercise their legal rights. 

 

 

I think the assumption would be that someone with no deal needs to ‘work harder’ in order to get noticed. And there remains the possibility that they could even stay with Kilmarnock.

Someone who has done a deal elsewhere has a different focus.

[stewartonpie]

15 minutes ago, NorfolkG said:

I think the assumption would be that someone with no deal needs to ‘work harder’ in order to get noticed. And there remains the possibility that they could even stay with Kilmarnock.

Someone who has done a deal elsewhere has a different focus.

 

On that basis O'Donnell will be out on loan from us to Stirling Albion next season

 

[NorfolkG]

1 minute ago, stewartonpie said:

 

On that basis O'Donnell will be out on loan from us to Stirling Albion next season

 

I highly doubt Stephen O’Donnell will be contracted to Kilmarnock beyond June.

[skygod]

What about all the loaned players? 

Is their focus not elsewhere? 

You could even have a situation where a player loaned from Club A to Club B signs a PCA with Club C!  

If a player who has signed a PCA doesn’t put in the effort or isn't focused then drop them. 

To automatically indict them for the act alone is unjust, and possibly self-harming. 

[NorfolkG]

1 minute ago, skygod said:

What about all the loaned players? 

Is their focus not elsewhere? 

You could even have a situation where a player loaned from Club A to Club B signs a PCA with Club C!  

If a player who has signed a PCA doesn’t put in the effort or isn't focused then drop them. 

To automatically indict them for the act alone is unjust, and possibly self-harming. 

Totally agree about not vilifying players who are well within their rights to seek a better deal elsewhere. Some will play well, great; some will not so drop them.

But it’s understandable that people prefer players who are perceived to have more to gain from the team’s success. That includes loan players imo; they have much to gain from succeeding during a short-term contract.

[GCM]

Don't think there will be many players, who's contract are running down, who go onto the park for any team and don't want to win, yes the committment might not be to quite the same level, but everyone who plays football wants to win. In the case of SOD I would rather have him playing at his current level than someone who is less quality but will sign for another season or two. An added bonus, with current squad, SOD is as likely to score as any of our midfield or forwards.

[historyman]

12 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

For me once a PCA is signed then any player irrespective of who it is can do one.  This holds for any club anywhere, Messi, Ronaldo, SOD, (never thought inside those in the same sentence), any player.

If they can be moved on for a fee of any kind and forgoe their contractual entitlements then we get someone who doesn't want to be here and free up wages and some money to get someone who does.

It's not personal or questioning their professionalism but it means instead of someone who ultimately wants to work somewhere else , we have someone who is pulling in the same direction as everyone else.

If you are not questioning their professionalism then there isn’t really any basis for your argument. 

[Trojan76]

If a player signs a PCA it is USUALLY for a bigger club, can't knock them for doing so. Days have changed from club loyalty, money talks. However, just because they have signed one doesn't always mean they have jacked it for their present club in meantime. JJ scored against Rangers in his only game for us after signing the PCA with them, prime example.

[Thebigguy68]

1 hour ago, NorfolkG said:

Totally agree about not vilifying players who are well within their rights to seek a better deal elsewhere. Some will play well, great; some will not so drop them.

But it’s understandable that people prefer players who are perceived to have more to gain from the team’s success. That includes loan players imo; they have much to gain from succeeding during a short-term contract.

Surely every player has something to gain every time they take the park? Their goal scoring record, clean sheet record, assists. The joy of a wonderful performance and a admiring crowd. Impressing commentators in the stand, the media, their family and friends. Present and future managers. I take the point that it’s good to feel the player Is fully vested in the club. But who, apart from the fans, are fully vested in the club? Many agents are actively positioning a move for a high performing player sometimes only a few months into a multi year contract. The pre contract thing makes thing concrete but I don’t think it makes the slightest difference to the appetite or most players to play their football. It’s the fans perceptions of such a player that change dramatically more than the players attitude. And to take out a top player ( in the face of limited good options) just to appease this element of the fan base would be counter productive. Like with jones however,  it tends to be a self fulfilling prophesy for the fans  in these situations. The fans predict they won’t try after pca, get frustrated any time a player fails to beat a man or complete a pass etc. It increases to almost jeering after a bit and it spreads to the player on the pitch and confidence goes. They struggle. The fans validate the fact that he’s chucked it. The manager - maybe against his better judgement on player ability and attitude - is forced to drop him.

With SOD he was the darling of the fans until it came out he was stalling on a contract extension. Suddenly perceptions of his performance changed. “ what’s happened to SOD?”. Nothing - it’s the fans perceptions changing. He’s still outstanding, being picked for Scotland, scoring as many goals as our striker. Frustrations from the stand. Negative comments in the forum, self fulfilling prophesy.

SOD should be applauded loudly every time he touches the ball until he moves on. He has been an outstanding servant to the club. A record internationalist and superb both defensively and as an attacking threat. A major factor in our success. The best right back I’ve seen playing for us. It’s just reward that he can step forward in his career.

Id be surprised though if he hasn’t already kicked his last ball for us.

[NorfolkG]

Just now, Thebigguy68 said:

Surely every player has something to gain every time they take the park? Their goal scoring record, clean sheet record, assists. The joy of a wonderful performance and a admiring crowd. Impressing commentators in the stand, the media, their family and friends. Present and future managers. I take the point that it’s good to feel the player Is fully vested in the club. But who, apart from the fans, are fully vested in the club? Many agents are actively positioning a move for a high performing player sometimes only a few months into a multi year contract. The pre contract thing makes thing concrete but I don’t think it makes the slightest difference to the appetite or most players to play their football. It’s the fans perceptions of such a player that change dramatically more than the players attitude. And to take out a top player ( in the face of limited good options) just to appease this element of the fan base would be counter productive. Like with jones however,  it tends to be a self fulfilling prophesy for the fans  in these situations. The fans predict they won’t try after pca, get frustrated any time a player fails to beat a man or complete a pass etc. It increases to almost jeering after a bit and it spreads to the player on the pitch and confidence goes. They struggle. The fans validate the fact that he’s chucked it. The manager - maybe against his better judgement on player ability and attitude - is forced to drop him.

With SOD he was the darling of the fans until it came out he was stalling on a contract extension. Suddenly perceptions of his performance changed. “ what’s happened to SOD?”. Nothing - it’s the fans perceptions changing. He’s still outstanding, being picked for Scotland, scoring as many goals as our striker. Frustrations from the stand. Negative comments in the forum, self fulfilling prophesy.

SOD should be applauded loudly every time he touches the ball until he moves on. He has been an outstanding servant to the club. A record internationalist and superb both defensively and as an attacking threat. A major factor in our success. The best right back I’ve seen playing for us. It’s just reward that he can step forward in his career.

Id be surprised though if he hasn’t already kicked his last ball for us.

I’m talking about pre-contracts in general, not Stephen O’Donnell.

I have no objection at all to players seeing out their last 6 months and being selected as the manager requires.

[livvy]

Jordan Jones is the reason for this worry about PCA. The little rat downed tools within a few weeks of signing his.

 

O'Donnell won't have that problem. He's a better professional and a better man. If he does sign a PCA elsewhere he will still be an asset to us for the remainder of his deal. It's definitely a shame he's choosing to move on as that right back role had his name on it for as long as he wanted it but it's a short career and a few years on the bench at Aberdeen is more lucrative than playing for us sadly.

[Barbinho]

4 minutes ago, Trojan76 said:

eh??? Jones scored in his next game against Rangers then was bombed out the squad by Steve Clarke, would hardly say he down his tools

That goal against Rangers was the last time he tried for killie. He absolutely downed tools after that. 

[Trojan76]

3 minutes ago, Barbinho said:

That goal against Rangers was the last time he tried for killie. He absolutely downed tools after that. 

i don't think he actually played again after that, if he did was one or two sub appearances

[skygod]

I remember he played at Easter Road and had a stinker.

That was his last match but he played nine times after the Rangers match, starting eight of them.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by skygod

[piffer]

Jones was rank rotten in the cup game against Forfar the weekend before the Rangers game. He delivered on the Wednesday night and that was his last contribution of note in a Killie jersey 

[stewarty66]

12 minutes ago, skygod said:

I remember he played at Easter Road and had a stinker.

That was his last match but he played nine times after the Rangers match, starting eight of them.

 

 

Indeed he did. 

However I would say his performance at St Mirren when when Liam Millar scored the winner was even worse. 

[Garvis]

42 minutes ago, Trojan76 said:

eh??? Jones scored in his next game against Rangers then was bombed out the squad by Steve Clarke, would hardly say he down his tools

Every game he was involved in after the rangers game he wasn’t trying a punt. 

[Bullitt]

27 minutes ago, stewarty66 said:

Indeed he did. 

However I would say his performance at St Mirren when when Liam Millar scored the winner was even worse. 

I supported him until I went to Easter Road and witnessed the nil-nil draw. 

[stewarty66]

48 minutes ago, Trojan76 said:

eh??? Jones scored in his next game against Rangers then was bombed out the squad by Steve Clarke, would hardly say he down his tools

Jones bombed himself out. 

When we were baying for his blood after his WATP tweet Steve Clarke sang his praises in public. 

The little rat never repaid his faith in him after the Sevco game. 

His performances after that were at their very best half hearted. 

[Thebigguy68]

His tweet made it impossible for the fans and the fans made it impossible for him thereafter.  As I posted on SOD post, it’s a self fulfilling prophesy. Fans want to think he didn’t try. So look for evidence and jeer accordingly which simply acts to intimidate the player who subsequently plays poorly, validating fans views. That’s exactly what happened at Easter road last season. I was in amongst it. Anyway, I’m sure those that want to believe he downed tools will keep on believing. And keep damaging our team when they force the next player out when he indicates he wants to leave for bigger things.

[NorfolkG]

6 minutes ago, Thebigguy68 said:

His tweet made it impossible for the fans and the fans made it impossible for him thereafter.  As I posted on SOD post, it’s a self fulfilling prophesy. Fans want to think he didn’t try. So look for evidence and jeer accordingly which simply acts to intimidate the player who subsequently plays poorly, validating fans views. That’s exactly what happened at Easter road last season. I was in amongst it. Anyway, I’m sure those that want to believe he downed tools will keep on believing. And keep damaging our team when they force the next player out when he indicates he wants to leave for bigger things.

A player suggesting that he wants to go on to better things = absolutely fine.

Tweeting ‘WATP’ = absolutely not fine.

[Wee_Eck1979]

1 hour ago, Trojan76 said:

i don't think he actually played again after that, if he did was one or two sub appearances

He was named on the team sheet but he never actually played any football after the huns game.