Wrangodog Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 Drew Wylie as sponsor ? Ach forgot, the letters would disappear when we lose a few goals. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awc279 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 1/6/2020 at 12:28 AM, midgeace9 said: There are many aspects to the Gambling / Drink sponsorship that would have been considered before coming to the difficult decision not to consider offers (if any). Football and Gambling/Drinking have been going hand in hand for decades (bookies, pools, booze fuelled trips, cheeky victory pints or 10 at the local) and it seems ludicrous that a football club would not want to be associated with a brand that would most likely appeal to the same general customers as the fans. As many have highlighted, it is everywhere you look in football and one less club (with a fairly small impression) not involved probably won't be changing the tide. However, just because a large number of customers are regular clients doesn't mean that it is a good fit. Firstly we have to look at the vulnerable members of society. Addicts are the obvious case here and more advertising is not going to help here but in reality the worst it could potentially be is the straw that breaks the camels back. The most obvious reason, as I see it, is to protect children and young adults. Advertisers know full well that planting the seed of brand recognition in a child brain will reap massive rewards in the long run. The evidence of how effective advertising is on kids via their trusted heroes is undeniable and sourced by multiple researchers. For this reason, this is why junk food is now banned for TV (and online) advertising at kids. Furthermore, gambling standards prohibit anyone who is, or seems to be, under 25 years to be featured gambling or playing a significant role in their communication. This is how they can circumvent this rule by having young footballers advertise on their chests instead. Money is good, cash is king but at what expense. Maybe not today but it might be the difference in a kid growing up to love the gambling or not taking part. For me this is worth Killie losing 100k a year over vs one of our own fans losing the same to gambling companies. Worse still, gambling debts contribute to the disgustingly high levels of suicide a****st young men. Stay clear please Killie. It's always been like that doesn't mean has has to always be like that I fully understand and agree with your concerns about advertising and addictions, but not convinced that a shirt sponsor "could potentially be is the straw that breaks the camels back". Addicts are not created by a logo on a team shirt. If they were we'd have wild-eyed joiners, crazed travel agents and a town of cheese fetishists. My son has several QTS sponsored shirts, but has never had the urge to lay train tracks. As for the junk food ban, have you been to a kiosk lately? And should hospitality be an alcohol-free zone? Addiction issues in this country are endemic, and there are many NHS & self-run groups who provide support & counselling. While Killie look to have a community support it's not their responsibility for individual actions, and I don't believe a shirt sponsor "might be the difference in a kid growing up to love the gambling". The adverts alone on Sky, BT etc would surely have more of an influence, while trackside advertising promoted alcohol & gambling for as long as I can remember. Yes, it's a noble thought. And yes, in an ideal world I'd bin a lot of advertisers - but it isn't an ideal world. We have to accept that, for our football team to compete in the league, they will have to accept the offers available if they want to be challenging for Top 6. If bookies or brewers offer money to my club for advertising, which could potentially get players in and move us up the table, I'm all for it. All the rest are doing it and, while that's not a justification, you need to separate Kilmarnock F.C from your personal beliefs. I'm fully with you on the morality, but the reality will hurt our club. Sadly, that's sport. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackpomm Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 5 hours ago, awc279 said: I fully understand and agree with your concerns about advertising and addictions, but not convinced that a shirt sponsor "could potentially be is the straw that breaks the camels back". Addicts are not created by a logo on a team shirt. If they were we'd have wild-eyed joiners, crazed travel agents and a town of cheese fetishists. My son has several QTS sponsored shirts, but has never had the urge to lay train tracks. As for the junk food ban, have you been to a kiosk lately? And should hospitality be an alcohol-free zone? Addiction issues in this country are endemic, and there are many NHS & self-run groups who provide support & counselling. While Killie look to have a community support it's not their responsibility for individual actions, and I don't believe a shirt sponsor "might be the difference in a kid growing up to love the gambling". The adverts alone on Sky, BT etc would surely have more of an influence, while trackside advertising promoted alcohol & gambling for as long as I can remember. Yes, it's a noble thought. And yes, in an ideal world I'd bin a lot of advertisers - but it isn't an ideal world. We have to accept that, for our football team to compete in the league, they will have to accept the offers available if they want to be challenging for Top 6. If bookies or brewers offer money to my club for advertising, which could potentially get players in and move us up the table, I'm all for it. All the rest are doing it and, while that's not a justification, you need to separate Kilmarnock F.C from your personal beliefs. I'm fully with you on the morality, but the reality will hurt our club. Sadly, that's sport. Looking just at the short term financial cost I found it difficult to disagree but maybe if "all the rest are doing it" there is an advantage in not doing it? Aggressive development of a football club brand that puts people and community first would offer cross promotional value to partners that otherwise might be concerned about degradation of their own brand through association with football. This stance - whilst offering complementary marketing packages, eg pitch hoarding, to Alcoholics Anonymous and GaScotland - would be highly newsworthy in itself. As the debate about (previously tobacco) drink and gambling promotion will remain ongoing for the foreseeable the clubs position would be regularly revisited in the media. This might create exactly the hook that a major sponsor sees value in. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCM Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 The government uses betting through the National Lottery to fund athletes to win more medals, then bangs on about gambling addiction. I was in toy shop today and they are selling roulette wheels and slot machines, surely that is aimed at kids. I agree there should be bans on certain items but why should KFC take the righteous stance, to the detrement of the club, when others encourage it. Total ban by all or not at all. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewWylie Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 1/9/2020 at 11:55 PM, Wrangodog said: Drew Wylie as sponsor ? Ach forgot, the letters would disappear when we lose a few goals. I didn’t disappear when that NAPM nonsense was going on unlike lots of you twats -11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyG Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 7 hours ago, DrewWylie said: I didn’t disappear when that NAPM nonsense was going on unlike lots of you tw8ts Not going because you've got another team to watch or something better to do is so much better eh? Figures. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted January 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 On 1/10/2020 at 2:13 PM, DrewWylie said: I didn’t disappear when that NAPM nonsense was going on unlike lots of you tw8ts And I don't regret it for one minute. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the doomed Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 More evidence we shouldnt accept gambling companies as our shirt or league & cup title sponsors. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51176275 Hamilton Accies: Brian Rice admits gambling breaches as head coach says he 'self-reported' Hamilton Accies boss Brian Rice has been charged with breaching Scottish FA gambling rules and says he wrote to the governing body to "self-report". The 56-year-old has been accused of breaching the rules in each season from 14 July 2015 to 15 October 2019. Rice, who has previously admitted to gambling addiction, faces a hearing on 30 January. "I would like to express my regret to the players, coaching staff and my friends and colleagues," he said. 'We will help him through this' - Accies chairman Maitland Rice 'excited' by 'fantastic' cup draw with Rangers Rice, who became Accies head coach in January 2019, described it as a "lapse" in a statement on his club's website in which Hamilton say they have co-operated fully with the association throughout the investigation period. He was accused of breaching disciplinary rule 31, which states that "no club, official, team official or other member of team staff, player, match official or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall gamble in any way on a football match". The former Hibernian, Nottingham Forest and Falkirk midfielder could face a suspension of at least three matches and a maximum of 16 plus a £100,000 fine. "This decision was one of the hardest I have had to take, but in a way also the easiest," he said. "I have made no secret of the fact that I have struggled with the disease that is gambling addiction in the past. "The reality is I am an addict and, while I have been proud of the fact I have been in recovery from this disease, a key part of the recovery programme is honesty: honesty to myself and honesty to those who have and who continue to support me, including my family and my football family at Hamilton." It is understood that Rice "reached out" to the SFA about the offences, which have led to one charge for each of the previous five seasons. "I wrote a letter to the Scottish FA self-reporting my gambling and did so as an admission that my disease has returned in order that I commit to recovery," he said. "I accept that a breach of the rules will come with punishment and I accept that. The reason I am speaking out is to remove the stigma attached to this horrible, isolating disease in the hope that those involved in Scottish football who are similarly in its grasp feel they can seek help and draw strength from my admission. "After committing to recovery I cannot believe that I have found myself back in the grip of gambling addiction, but this disease is not cured with a finite course of treatment." Rice's statement and Hamilton's support for their head coach have been described as "brave" by Conservative MSP Ruth Davidson, who said on Twitter: "Gambling is a disease and hypocrisy in football is rife - shirt sponsors, FA goals rights sold to betting websites - without acknowledgement of human cost." -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, the doomed said: More evidence we shouldnt accept gambling companies as our shirt or league & cup title sponsors. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51176275 Hamilton Accies: Brian Rice admits gambling breaches as head coach says he 'self-reported' Hamilton Accies boss Brian Rice has been charged with breaching Scottish FA gambling rules and says he wrote to the governing body to "self-report". The 56-year-old has been accused of breaching the rules in each season from 14 July 2015 to 15 October 2019. Rice, who has previously admitted to gambling addiction, faces a hearing on 30 January. "I would like to express my regret to the players, coaching staff and my friends and colleagues," he said. 'We will help him through this' - Accies chairman Maitland Rice 'excited' by 'fantastic' cup draw with Rangers Rice, who became Accies head coach in January 2019, described it as a "lapse" in a statement on his club's website in which Hamilton say they have co-operated fully with the association throughout the investigation period. He was accused of breaching disciplinary rule 31, which states that "no club, official, team official or other member of team staff, player, match official or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall gamble in any way on a football match". The former Hibernian, Nottingham Forest and Falkirk midfielder could face a suspension of at least three matches and a maximum of 16 plus a £100,000 fine. "This decision was one of the hardest I have had to take, but in a way also the easiest," he said. "I have made no secret of the fact that I have struggled with the disease that is gambling addiction in the past. "The reality is I am an addict and, while I have been proud of the fact I have been in recovery from this disease, a key part of the recovery programme is honesty: honesty to myself and honesty to those who have and who continue to support me, including my family and my football family at Hamilton." It is understood that Rice "reached out" to the SFA about the offences, which have led to one charge for each of the previous five seasons. "I wrote a letter to the Scottish FA self-reporting my gambling and did so as an admission that my disease has returned in order that I commit to recovery," he said. "I accept that a breach of the rules will come with punishment and I accept that. The reason I am speaking out is to remove the stigma attached to this horrible, isolating disease in the hope that those involved in Scottish football who are similarly in its grasp feel they can seek help and draw strength from my admission. "After committing to recovery I cannot believe that I have found myself back in the grip of gambling addiction, but this disease is not cured with a finite course of treatment." Rice's statement and Hamilton's support for their head coach have been described as "brave" by Conservative MSP Ruth Davidson, who said on Twitter: "Gambling is a disease and hypocrisy in football is rife - shirt sponsors, FA goals rights sold to betting websites - without acknowledgement of human cost." How is that evidence man? Gambling is not a disease unless diseases are now self inflicted. Neither is alcoholism a disease. Ah'm not saying either are to be encouraged but lacking self control is not a disease. Maybe a case for it being a mental illness, but you could say that about any manner of things, let's just stop the world and not let anyone do anything in case someone gets offended or canny control themselves. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullitt Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Wait until they add daily chuffs to the "disease" list... incidentally got to admire Rice for coming out and owning his addiction. Hope he gets the support he needs, but football being football you know fans will likely sing 'the gambler' when they play Accies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbs Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Like how he describes his betting over a 4year period as "a lapse". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killiefaetheferry Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Wonder if he got word of the story coming out...? Fair play if he was honestly holding his hands up voluntarily. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullmetaljacket Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 I get that gambling is an addiction but don't think it should have a bearing on prospective sponsorship. Being sponsored by bet365 wouldn't make me any more likely to put on a Lucky 15 than being sponsored by Benson and Hedges would put me on to 40 a day. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 8 hours ago, blues said: How is that evidence man? Gambling is not a disease unless diseases are now self inflicted. Neither is alcoholism a disease. Ah'm not saying either are to be encouraged but lacking self control is not a disease. Maybe a case for it being a mental illness, but you could say that about any manner of things, let's just stop the world and not let anyone do anything in case someone gets offended or canny control themselves. Think you’ll find any addictive behaviour is recognised as a mental disorder by the medical profession , no maybes about it . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lroy Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, fullmetaljacket said: I get that gambling is an addiction but don't think it should have a bearing on prospective sponsorship. Being sponsored by bet365 wouldn't make me any more likely to put on a Lucky 15 than being sponsored by Benson and Hedges would put me on to 40 a day. If it didn't have some impact then betting companies wouldn't invest millions in advertising. Who got Smallworld broadband after they were our sponsor? Who went to Verve to get a car after they sponsored us? Who bought Seriously Strong cheese after they sponsored us? Advertising works. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Lroy said: Who got Smallworld broadband after they were our sponsor? Who went to Verve to get a car after they sponsored us? Who bought Seriously Strong cheese after they sponsored us? Advertising works. None of the above. I've never used QTS to clear trees for me either. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lroy Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 25 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: None of the above. I've never used QTS to clear trees for me either. But many people did. You don't have to have everyone sign up to your service for it to have been worth it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilMARKnock Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Lroy said: But many people did. You don't have to have everyone sign up to your service for it to have been worth it. Did they really? I'd say more of a tax right off than expected return these days. I'm also a no for all 3. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killiepie Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Lroy said: But many people did. You don't have to have everyone sign up to your service for it to have been worth it. "Many people did" Is this factual or just an opinion? The fact Smallworld didn't sponsor us long would indicate they never got the uptake to make it worthwhile. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby_Doo Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Advertising doesn't work? I bet you think Google is a search engine and Facebook is a social network too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casual observer Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) The whole topic of gambling and alcohol availability when linked to a local football club like ours, trying to promote itself as healthy for the community it represents is a difficult circle to square. I understand the point of view that some put forward that we should not take the Bookmakers or Alcohol firms money for shirt sponsorship, yet nobody feels the need to post their objection to the prize money received for cup and league placings provided by said Bookmaking companies and has been the case for years. Should we have booze free hospitality suites as this is an extension of our club and it’s ethos of not promoting alcohol? Is the Sports Bar better served being a juice bar? Attending football games and seeing shirt logos versus watching live TV football where pre/in & post-game advertising is crammed with bookies and beer commercials also seems to be a far lesser burden to bear too. Kids shirts don’t have the logo and advertising from these types of companies obviously so that is a positive. I do not know whether fans of clubs who have accepted these type of shirt sponsorship are more or less susceptible to addiction issues? I would doubt there’s any correlation whatsoever but ultimately everyone’s moral compass will be aimed at their own particular degree of comfort. Edited January 21, 2020 by casual observer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prahakillie Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Unless there's a blanket ban across Scottish football fans are going to see the ads anyway, on other teams shirts or around our advertising boards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 36 minutes ago, kilMARKnock said: Did they really? I'd say more of a tax right off than expected return these days. I'm also a no for all 3. That's the way I understand most sponsorship - tax write off. Put it this way, if you are investing £100k+ a year sponsoring Killie, you'll get nowhere near £100k of sales off the back of it! Anyone I know who sponsors Killie do it to put some extra cash in/able to write some of it off their tax returns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 24 minutes ago, Scooby_Doo said: Advertising doesn't work? I bet you think Google is a search engine and Facebook is a social network too. Nobody says it doesn't work - what folk are saying is not all advertising does and often done for other reasons. Our bus usually sponsors a player - we don't do it to get extra members! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historyman Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Killiefaetheferry said: Wonder if he got word of the story coming out...? Fair play if he was honestly holding his hands up voluntarily. Wouldn’t be surprised if it was the former. That’s often the way when people come out with these kind of honest revelations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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