Popular Post Nobody Posted January 26, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 There has been some totally OTT vitriol on here in recent days, heightened by yesterday's pathetic capitulation at Perth. It should go a huge way to reducing tension if the Board was to say something publicly about their vision and their plans - providing some reassurance that there even is a plan would be a start. In the absence of any direction or even communication from the Board, it is understandable that people jump to conclusions, but this is starting to get toxic and it is not going to get better in a vacuum of communication. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogwai Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 In the social media era, people crave information quickly. We want more transparency from the club to feel the connection, to feel part of something. It seems like the club are stuck in the 'treat the fans like mushrooms' era, which to be fair worked for Steve Clarke as we had massive faith in him and he had massive success. However, when things are going from bad to worse, the lack of communication is perceived as either "they don't know what they're doing" and/or "they don't give a toss about us other than getting our money". The Steve Clarke era is well and truly finished. All the good work has been undone and the club need to realise they are starting from the bottom again. Kilmarnock football club needs to interact with the fans to stop apathy sweeping through the ranks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post killie99 Posted January 26, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 So let me get this straight - The board have to replace the best manager we've had in decades. So, they bring in Alessio who has played at the top level managed at a lower level and has been a coach/assistant at the very top of the game. The board were wrong to appoint Alessio, they should have appointed Dyer, who doesn't want the job, and they should have brought in someone to help them with more football experience. So they bring in former player, coach and assistant (and club legend) Fowler. The board sack Alessio as he fails to live up to expectations and many fans were not happy he was hired in the first place, but they were wrong doing that as they should have given him more time. So they appoint Dyer until the end of the season, who now is willing to take the job. Results don't improve immediately so the board were wrong to appoint Dyer. They should have given it to him earlier; they should give him money to spend; they shouldn't give him money to spend as he's only here for six months, and three matches in they should sack him and appoint Holt? Oh and sack that Fowler as well as he's not managed to turn the whole club around and put an infrastructure in place in a few months? Have I missed anything? I can't be the only one struggling to follow this. We currently want them to sack the second manager this season and appoint another former player, coach, assistant (and club legend) who may or may not be picking the team at a Livi side who are getting a few results here and there, certainly a bit more than us at the moment? Is that the current state of play? Apart from wanting the "idiot", "stupid", "hopeless" board to bugger off as well of course. I appreciate the OP here was trying to cool the jets a bit and is seeking some serious discourse, but it doesn't seem to be a view shared by many if we continue to those who think the way forward is to be the most in your face and shout the loudest. Be careful what you wish for. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfc_superteam Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 28 minutes ago, david mcbeth said: There has been some totally OTT vitriol on here in recent days, heightened by yesterday's pathetic capitulation at Perth. It should go a huge way to reducing tension if the Board was to say something publicly about their vision and their plans - providing some reassurance that there even is a plan would be a start. In the absence of any direction or even communication from the Board, it is understandable that people jump to conclusions, but this is starting to get toxic and it is not going to get better in a vacuum of communication. Nothing ott about no points since the first game in December. Something is very wrong at the moment as alluded to in Dyers interview! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, kfc_superteam said: Nothing ott about no points since the first game in December. Something is very wrong at the moment as alluded to in Dyers interview! This 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimStripey Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 Without being in the dressing room it’s impossible to say exactly what is going on but trying to look at it rationally I think it all boils down to a) confidence and b ) tactics / training. The squad doesn’t have a shred of confidence left that’s clear. I think some of that is a hangover from the bad vibe AA had created in the dressing room and has been fuelled by the poor run of results since. On the training and tactics side I really thought we were beginning to improve after the break but yesterday was a regression. I still think we have a pretty good squad. We can still name 7 of the players that started against Rangers in the last game of the season in our team. 8 if you count Jamie Mac. A footballer doesn’t lose his talent but they all go through variations in form. That is the crux of it I think. AD needs to show he can pick up a team low on confidence and instill them with the belief and game plan to go out and execute. It’s exactly what SC did when he took over from Jig. It wasn’t instant success either. It’s up to AD to make the players believe in him. I hope he’s up to it. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piffer Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, SlimStripey said: Without being in the dressing room it’s impossible to say exactly what is going on but trying to look at it rationally I think it all boils down to a) confidence and b ) tactics / training I’d add attitude as well. There have been a number who’ve been in a huff all season. They got what they wanted when AA got the sack but the attitude and application hasn’t improved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimStripey Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 10 minutes ago, piffer said: I’d add attitude as well. There have been a number who’ve been in a huff all season. They got what they wanted when AA got the sack but the attitude and application hasn’t improved. Yes attitude will certainly affect things as well. The way training and tactics are conducted will be a factor in ensuring everyone has the right attitude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post historyman Posted January 26, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, killie99 said: So let me get this straight - The board have to replace the best manager we've had in decades. So, they bring in Alessio who has played at the top level managed at a lower level and has been a coach/assistant at the very top of the game. The board were wrong to appoint Alessio, they should have appointed Dyer, who doesn't want the job, and they should have brought in someone to help them with more football experience. So they bring in former player, coach and assistant (and club legend) Fowler. The board sack Alessio as he fails to live up to expectations and many fans were not happy he was hired in the first place, but they were wrong doing that as they should have given him more time. So they appoint Dyer until the end of the season, who now is willing to take the job. Results don't improve immediately so the board were wrong to appoint Dyer. They should have given it to him earlier; they should give him money to spend; they shouldn't give him money to spend as he's only here for six months, and three matches in they should sack him and appoint Holt? Oh and sack that Fowler as well as he's not managed to turn the whole club around and put an infrastructure in place in a few months? Have I missed anything? I can't be the only one struggling to follow this. We currently want them to sack the second manager this season and appoint another former player, coach, assistant (and club legend) who may or may not be picking the team at a Livi side who are getting a few results here and there, certainly a bit more than us at the moment? Is that the current state of play? Apart from wanting the "idiot", "stupid", "hopeless" board to bugger off as well of course. I appreciate the OP here was trying to cool the jets a bit and is seeking some serious discourse, but it doesn't seem to be a view shared by many if we continue to those who think the way forward is to be the most in your face and shout the loudest. Be careful what you wish for. That’s not quite how I see it. I would summarise the boards decisions like this: Mistake 1 - it was highly likely that SC would leave in the summer but no contingency plan had been put in place. As a consequence it took far too long to appoint a new manager and a very crucial part of the close season was missed compounded by the fact that we started early in Europe. No time to plan, no signings and then after the European exit no friendlies. Mistake 2 - sacking AA (who was announced as the best manager in Scotland according to a board member a few months before) far too early without really giving him a chance. Reasons still unknown players probably involved but let’s be honest it wasn’t based on results. Oh, and failing to even learn from what happened in the summer, there was of course no contingency plan for his replacement. Cue more uncertainty for players and fans alike Mistake 3 - appointing Dyer until the end of the season. Not ideal but it was understandable to appoint him to the Christmas break but to appoint him after the performance at St Mirren was a disgraceful decision. Hardly a massive surprise to get more of the same at St Johnstone yesterday. Mistake 4 - appointing James Fowler to a role that he has no previous experience of. They may as well have appointed him as manager. At least he had done that before. Mistake 5 - not spending any of the money that came in from sale of Taylor and comp for SC. And they seem determined not to learn their lesson here and do it again this window. That to me is unforgivable. Sow and Jackson? Give me a f***ing break. They were as totally rubbish as I expected them to be. For me the whole situation is not confusing nor contradictory. The board have continuously and consistently made the wrong decisions and as someone has pointed out the single best decision they made was handed to them on a plate by the Trust. Their mismanagement of the club since May is there for all to see and where we are sitting today (7 league losses on the spin, weak squad and manager who doesn’t even want the job) sits firmly on their shoulders. Edited January 26, 2020 by historyman 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilly Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 8 losses in a row 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraz65 Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 20 hours ago, killie99 said: So let me get this straight - The board have to replace the best manager we've had in decades. So, they bring in Alessio who has played at the top level managed at a lower level and has been a coach/assistant at the very top of the game. The board were wrong to appoint Alessio, they should have appointed Dyer, who doesn't want the job, and they should have brought in someone to help them with more football experience. So they bring in former player, coach and assistant (and club legend) Fowler. The board sack Alessio as he fails to live up to expectations and many fans were not happy he was hired in the first place, but they were wrong doing that as they should have given him more time. So they appoint Dyer until the end of the season, who now is willing to take the job. Results don't improve immediately so the board were wrong to appoint Dyer. They should have given it to him earlier; they should give him money to spend; they shouldn't give him money to spend as he's only here for six months, and three matches in they should sack him and appoint Holt? Oh and sack that Fowler as well as he's not managed to turn the whole club around and put an infrastructure in place in a few months? Have I missed anything? I can't be the only one struggling to follow this. We currently want them to sack the second manager this season and appoint another former player, coach, assistant (and club legend) who may or may not be picking the team at a Livi side who are getting a few results here and there, certainly a bit more than us at the moment? Is that the current state of play? Apart from wanting the "idiot", "stupid", "hopeless" board to bugger off as well of course. I appreciate the OP here was trying to cool the jets a bit and is seeking some serious discourse, but it doesn't seem to be a view shared by many if we continue to those who think the way forward is to be the most in your face and shout the loudest. Be careful what you wish for. If you cherry pick individual opinions from various supporters, you can easily create a narrative that frames the Killie fans as inconsistent. In reality, all that most wanted was to see some evidence of forward planning. We knew in April that Clarke was leaving, yet no appointment was made until two weeks prior to CQN. Bowie stated at the time that he though that we had secured "the best manager in Scotland", yet sacked him six months later, five weeks after winning manager of the month. This was, by many accounts, to avoid having to pay any compensation as part of a release clause. We then appoint the cheap option, Alex Dyer, despite Bowie having stated that the one thing he had learned as Chairman was never to go with the cheap option as manager. From an outsider's perspective, it appears as though the board have no idea what they're doing. The club was a disaster prior to Clarke (11 signings in one day, the Lee Clark circus, plastic pitch, trying to convince Jig to stay on) and there's little evidence it's anything other than that post the great man leaving. Contrast this to Motherwell's approach to planning for this season and the frustration of Killie fans is very understandable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piffer Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) Is Dyer actually the cheap option? Did he not sign an improved rolling contract when Clarke did. He'll come in cheaper than a managerial appointment but he could be in a lucrative gig. Are we in a position where it could be costly as well. It was stated straight away that he would be remaining at the club. Edited January 27, 2020 by piffer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygod Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 21 hours ago, killie99 said: The board were wrong to appoint Alessio, they should have appointed Dyer.... My recollection is that the appointment of Alessio was widely acclaimed, and that appointing Dyer in the summer was a minority opinion. As Fraz says, if you pick and choose from a myriad of opinions you can construct many a contradiction. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 21 hours ago, killie99 said: I can't be the only one struggling to follow this. It really is extraordinarily straightforward. SC was leaving for a "better" job at the end of last season and the board should have taken action then to build on the momentum he had provided. They did not. For 9 months now they have done precisely hee haw, hoping for better days. They appointed a highly qualified "manager" without any of the basic skills necessary for the job and the inevitable train crash followed. So now we are in crisis management mode. We are no longer "building for the future" we are fighting for survival and making bad choices at every turn. I have seen nothing from the board to indicate they are even aware there is a problem. That is the concern I believe that was shared by the OP. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggy Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 21 hours ago, killie99 said: So let me get this straight - The board have to replace the best manager we've had in decades. So, they bring in Alessio who has played at the top level managed at a lower level and has been a coach/assistant at the very top of the game. The board were wrong to appoint Alessio, they should have appointed Dyer, who doesn't want the job, and they should have brought in someone to help them with more football experience. So they bring in former player, coach and assistant (and club legend) Fowler. The board sack Alessio as he fails to live up to expectations and many fans were not happy he was hired in the first place, but they were wrong doing that as they should have given him more time. So they appoint Dyer until the end of the season, who now is willing to take the job. Results don't improve immediately so the board were wrong to appoint Dyer. They should have given it to him earlier; they should give him money to spend; they shouldn't give him money to spend as he's only here for six months, and three matches in they should sack him and appoint Holt? Oh and sack that Fowler as well as he's not managed to turn the whole club around and put an infrastructure in place in a few months? Have I missed anything? I can't be the only one struggling to follow this. We currently want them to sack the second manager this season and appoint another former player, coach, assistant (and club legend) who may or may not be picking the team at a Livi side who are getting a few results here and there, certainly a bit more than us at the moment? Is that the current state of play? Apart from wanting the "idiot", "stupid", "hopeless" board to bugger off as well of course. I appreciate the OP here was trying to cool the jets a bit and is seeking some serious discourse, but it doesn't seem to be a view shared by many if we continue to those who think the way forward is to be the most in your face and shout the loudest. Be careful what you wish for. Well said 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle10g1 Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 One things for sure whatever plans the board had for the remainder of the window they need to be enhanced considerably now. I don’t agree with the Manager’s view at the weekend that any signings won’t make an immediate difference. They can and we have witnessed this on many an occasion . The board / Director of Football should be looking at the more expensive English loan market at least at Championship level..We have about 16 weeks left to pay inflated wages for whoever,, just pay the money and get the best we can get in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraz65 Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 47 minutes ago, piffer said: Is Dyer actually the cheap option? Did he not sign an improved rolling contract when Clarke did. He'll come in cheaper than a managerial appointment but he could be in a lucrative gig. Are we in a position where it could be costly as well. It was stated straight away that he would be remaining at the club. We would be liable for paying off the remainder of his salary, so yes, keeping him at the club is the cheap option. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casual observer Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 If he’s here for the remainder of his contract, hows that cheaper than paying him off? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestersKtid Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 minute ago, casual observer said: If he’s here for the remainder of his contract, hows that cheaper than paying him off? Rolling contract means at any 1 point he has a year left. So we would potentially owe him a years salary to get rid. I'd expect all parties come to a compromise most of the time tho. It protects both manager and club as if we gave him a 3 year deal we could be due to pay more money if it ended early. Manager would obviously prefer the long contract but if it was a basic 1 year contract we could get rid for nothing at end of that deal. With 1 year rolling we'd also be due a years compensation if the manager does well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historyman Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, eagle10g1 said: One things for sure whatever plans the board had for the remainder of the window they need to be enhanced considerably now. I don’t agree with the Manager’s view at the weekend that any signings won’t make an immediate difference. They can and we have witnessed this on many an occasion . The board / Director of Football should be looking at the more expensive English loan market at least at Championship level..We have about 16 weeks left to pay inflated wages for whoever,, just pay the money and get the best we can get in. Boyce certainly made an immediate difference. Made one, scored one and wins them the 3 points. Starting to pay his way already. Edited January 27, 2020 by historyman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casual observer Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 10 minutes ago, PrestersKtid said: Rolling contract means at any 1 point he has a year left. So we would potentially owe him a years salary to get rid. I'd expect all parties come to a compromise most of the time tho. It protects both manager and club as if we gave him a 3 year deal we could be due to pay more money if it ended early. Manager would obviously prefer the long contract but if it was a basic 1 year contract we could get rid for nothing at end of that deal. With 1 year rolling we'd also be due a years compensation if the manager does well. So he’s not manager ‘til the end of the season then, as every day in post he has a year’s contract left, or alternatively come the summer he reverts back to asst manager to his successor as he still has a year still left and will have every day thereafter? Unless the contract was amended when he agreed to become manager until May/June. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestersKtid Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 57 minutes ago, casual observer said: So he’s not manager ‘til the end of the season then, as every day in post he has a year’s contract left, or alternatively come the summer he reverts back to asst manager to his successor as he still has a year still left and will have every day thereafter? Unless the contract was amended when he agreed to become manager until May/June. I'd imagine he has a new contract, either that or there's a get out for us at end of the season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casual observer Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) In other words no one knows whether the 1 year rolling contract is still in place then, just so we’re clear. Edited January 27, 2020 by casual observer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al#1 Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 The reality is that’s the “bounce”has certainly evaporated Fail to prepare and prepar to fail is a message the board are simply not getting. Was the pre season disaster down to Kirsten? I don’t think so. Did the board assume that AA would be able to make signings, organise pre season, learn a language , buy a house, move to a different country, work with players far inferior to what he was use to - all with the pressure to get results from day 1. Who was helping him? Kilmarnock FC should be a team, consisting of fans, players, staff and directors. For succcess we need to move forward together. for that to happen the “team” needs a leader. Contrasting our fortunes with the mood, attitude and excitement in the stands of Hearts yesterday and we have fallen so far. While I appreciate we are not on the same finincial model Hearts have invested in players like Boyce and Naismith. At the same time ( and no offence) we are trying our hardest to morph into Hamilton or st mirren or even Partick. its time Billy and Phylis started to lead from the front. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 47 minutes ago, Al#1 said: Was the pre season disaster down to Kirsten? I don’t think so. You think wrong then. 100% down to her and she hopefully dragging St Johnstone down now as well. Agree with everything else you say though. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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