RAG Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 Wouldn't disagree with any of that Scooby. There's a big propaganda effort going on - like at all times of genuine national crisis. It's more than just 'spin' on the story. Public shaming of non conformists, all the social control tricks of the trade. Take the actual infection figures. The minute it got more serious, it becomes much more difficult to find the actual numbers on the BBC website. Ever seen a breakdown of how the virus is progressing in your area? Of course not. Top Brexitier Dyson getting a contract to build ventilators that don't have regulatory approval, while the government 'forget' to reply to the EU's bulk ordering from actual ventilator manufacturers - 'cos they're made in Germany and Italy. Don't need those - we've got blue passports to save us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygod Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 21 minutes ago, RAG said: Ever seen a breakdown of how the virus is progressing in your area? Of course not. Stats by health board are updated each day at 2 pm on the www.gov.scot website. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, skygod said: Stats by health board are updated each day at 2 pm on the www.gov.scot website. I’ve seen the daily numbers there - never a graph of the progression. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 34 minutes ago, RAG said: Wouldn't disagree with any of that Scooby. There's a big propaganda effort going on - like at all times of genuine national crisis. It's more than just 'spin' on the story. Public shaming of non conformists, all the social control tricks of the trade. Take the actual infection figures. The minute it got more serious, it becomes much more difficult to find the actual numbers on the BBC website. Ever seen a breakdown of how the virus is progressing in your area? Of course not. Top Brexitier Dyson getting a contract to build ventilators that don't have regulatory approval, while the government 'forget' to reply to the EU's bulk ordering from actual ventilator manufacturers - 'cos they're made in Germany and Italy. Don't need those - we've got blue passports to save us. Don’t think your last 2 sentences helps tbh . The EU order was for something like 200,000 units from a restricted number of suppliers . Whilst I agree with your sentiment that it would have been prudent to be involved with that order the number that would have come to the U.K. may have been limited with an uncertain delivery time frame , but none the less cheaper , which for any one involved in NHS procurement would testify would not be unusual . As for the likes of brexiteers like Dyson supplying non regulated ventilators , I don’t care who supplies them , if Farage had come up with a design and produced them quickly , my A/E doctor son doesn’t , in his own words , give a f**k where they come from just get them on site ASAP . There are a plethora of U.K. companies willing to step up GTech , Maclaren , Prodrive and others who will no doubt fill the void that our missed opportunity with the EU caused . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbs Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 I believe they are pushing the younger victims onto the front pages in order to force folk to take notice. For the last 2 months we were pretty much convinced that victims were either elderly or had underlying health concerns ... we know now that this is not the case. It might emerge that even the younger victims had an unknown condition which made them susceptible but at the moment we don't know. If the unsavoury reporting of these deaths keeps folk cooped up for a while then it will have served a positive purpose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 22 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said: Don’t think your last 2 sentences helps tbh . The EU order was for something like 200,000 units from a restricted number of suppliers . Whilst I agree with your sentiment that it would have been prudent to be involved with that order the number that would have come to the U.K. may have been limited with an uncertain delivery time frame , but none the less cheaper , which for any one involved in NHS procurement would testify would not be unusual . As for the likes of brexiteers like Dyson supplying non regulated ventilators , I don’t care who supplies them , if Farage had come up with a design and produced them quickly , my A/E doctor son doesn’t , in his own words , give a f**k where they come from just get them on site ASAP . There are a plethora of U.K. companies willing to step up GTech , Maclaren , Prodrive and others who will no doubt fill the void that our missed opportunity with the EU caused . When will Dyson/F1 teams/whoever supply the functional ventilators though? Especially if demand is expected to peak fairly rapidly. What if there’s a manufacturing defect on a new and experimental, as yet untested product? These things happen, that’s why regulation is as stringent. Seems a politically motivated decision not to deploy an all hands on deck approach and acquire all available functional stock, regardless of it’s origin, from all sources, including the EU - because as you say, they need everything they can get. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 32 minutes ago, RAG said: When will Dyson/F1 teams/whoever supply the functional ventilators though? Especially if demand is expected to peak fairly rapidly. What if there’s a manufacturing defect on a new and experimental, as yet untested product? These things happen, that’s why regulation is as stringent. Seems a politically motivated decision not to deploy an all hands on deck approach and acquire all available functional stock, regardless of it’s origin, from all sources, including the EU - because as you say, they need everything they can get. I don’t think there is any doubt that the fact they “forgot “ is politically motivated . The testing will take weeks at best but iirc there were similar problems around the SARS crisis with a rush for new equipment whereby regulations were bent around the world . A joke from my sons A/E department I’ve just found out one of our neighbours was taken to the hospital last night with suspected Covid-19 But they’ve put him on one of the new Dyson ventilators and apparently he’s picking up nicely .... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby_Doo Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 hour ago, chubbs said: For the last 2 months we were pretty much convinced that victims were either elderly or had underlying health concerns ... we know now that this is not the case. It might emerge that even the younger victims had an unknown condition which made them susceptible but at the moment we don't know. If the unsavoury reporting of these deaths keeps folk cooped up for a while then it will have served a positive purpose. I'm sorry, but I'm not having that - there aren't scores of teenagers dying from this. 99% of deaths from this will be over 60s, you can be sure of that. Of course there is still risk, but there is always risk in anything. These unfortunate deaths are being pounced upon to do nothing but scare the s**t out of you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewWylie Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 Most have underlying health problems as well 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbs Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 Unconfirmed reports coming out of Madrid that they are withdrawing ventilators from those over the age of 65. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_killie Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 7 hours ago, Scooby_Doo said: I'm sorry, but I'm not having that - there aren't scores of teenagers dying from this. 99% of deaths from this will be over 60s, you can be sure of that. Of course there is still risk, but there is always risk in anything. These unfortunate deaths are being pounced upon to do nothing but scare the s**t out of you. Not sure your point Scooby whether you are a teenager, younger or older all lifeis valuable. Are you saying older yins dispenible? The point is, if youngsters have a cant care less attitude and spread the virus, is that ok for older folk? So if it means scaring younger folk a bit, so be it in my opinion. I've heard one in family saying it's just like flu and will carry on as normal....sigh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killie1961 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 12 hours ago, Scooter said: Heard the other day they had already put in place anominated survivor; Dominic feckin' Raab! Johnson even when ill still has to cling to power once this crisis comes to an end he must be held to account in why he allowed cheltenham to go ahead and why he never had a policy of bringing in testing people for this virus and why he waited a few days to have his 1st cobra meeting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harley Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 2 hours ago, killie1961 said: Johnson even when ill still has to cling to power once this crisis comes to an end he must be held to account in why he allowed cheltenham to go ahead and why he never had a policy of bringing in testing people for this virus and why he waited a few days to have his 1st cobra meeting Agreed, disgraceful that Cheltenham was allowed to go ahead & Liverpool fans going to Madrid & vice versa. They kneW Madrid was highly infected. Boris his government & so called scientist have caused many more needless deaths by not acting quicker. His herd statement was despicable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby_Doo Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 9 hours ago, Shropshire_killie said: Not sure your point Scooby whether you are a teenager, younger or older all lifeis valuable. Are you saying older yins dispenible? The point is, if youngsters have a cant care less attitude and spread the virus, is that ok for older folk? So if it means scaring younger folk a bit, so be it in my opinion. I've heard one in family saying it's just like flu and will carry on as normal....sigh No, I'm not saying that older folk are dispensible. I'm saying that the media are placing the deaths of young front and centre for their own sick means, not to report news. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby_Doo Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 10 hours ago, chubbs said: Unconfirmed reports coming out of Madrid that they are withdrawing ventilators from those over the age of 65. If they're unconfirmed then you should keep them to yourself. What does passing that 'info' on achieve? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_killie Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 22 minutes ago, Scooby_Doo said: No, I'm not saying that older folk are dispensible. I'm saying that the media are placing the deaths of young front and centre for their own sick means, not to report news. Sorry Scooby. I kinda meant the young sometimes need a shock. Quite a few being stopped down here for being out n about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 Uk u-turns on Eu ventilators. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Shropshire_killie said: Sorry Scooby. I kinda meant the young sometimes need a shock. Quite a few being stopped down here for being out n about. Eh? You don’t think having your liberty removed is enough of a shock? Your education in tatters, any job prospects, social opportunities gone, seeing your parents potentially lose their jobs etc? Worrying about older relatives? 100% chance that will negatively impact on your life if you’re a kid - less so if you’re an adult with resources and means to sit it out for 6 months. People get more mentally stable as they get older - even complete fruitcakes.. Edited March 28, 2020 by RAG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_killie Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 20 minutes ago, RAG said: Eh? You don’t think having your liberty removed is enough of a shock? Your education in tatters, any job prospects, social opportunities gone, seeing your parents potentially lose their jobs etc? Worrying about older relatives? 100% chance that will negatively impact on your life if you’re a kid - less so if you’re an adult with resources and means to sit it out for 6 months. People get more mentally stable as they get older - even complete fruitcakes.. Of course what you list is a shock. But some are blatantly ignoring it that's what I was saying 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 18 hours ago, RAG said: When will Dyson/F1 teams/whoever supply the functional ventilators though? Especially if demand is expected to peak fairly rapidly. What if there’s a manufacturing defect on a new and experimental, as yet untested product? These things happen, that’s why regulation is as stringent. Seems a politically motivated decision not to deploy an all hands on deck approach and acquire all available functional stock, regardless of it’s origin, from all sources, including the EU - because as you say, they need everything they can get. Distribing that there appears to be a dearth of orders for proper ventilator companys but Tory donors like Dyson are getting asked for thousands. If this is true then the vileness of the Tories and their profit first attitude has reached a new low. Surely this would see bonbons benefit of the doubt finally thrown aside, if true theres so much dis and no information around. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, Shropshire_killie said: Of course what you list is a shock. But some are blatantly ignoring it that's what I was saying I’ve not seen anyone blatantly ignoring it. Obviously people in a country of 65m will have been ignoring it, but there’s far more risk from people using Trains, Buses and Supermarkets at present. Even vending machines are banned in Italy, so we can add taking a tenner out the bank machine to the list of new dangerous things that might risk anyones life if they’re unlucky,. This new reality might take some time to set in for some, not everyones clued up and thoughtful towards others - some through no fault of their own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 52 minutes ago, Zorro said: Uk u-turns on Eu ventilators. A bit of good news 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 17 minutes ago, Beaker71 said: Distribing that there appears to be a dearth of orders for proper ventilator companys but Tory donors like Dyson are getting asked for thousands. If this is true then the vileness of the Tories and their profit first attitude has reached a new low. Surely this would see bonbons benefit of the doubt finally thrown aside, if true theres so much dis and no information around. BoJo in fairness is not a scientist, none of us have ever lived through this kind of thing. He underestimated covid, putting Brexit ideology before losing face. In a tight spot, you’re better as part of a bigger unit, just like in WW2. It was a high risk strategy and we should all be glad he’s rowed back from that. Would be a public health and to a lesser extent PR disaster if Dyson etc don’t deliver on time. Even their ETA of June seems a bit late in the day when this could peak well before. But at least Dyson or GTEC are involved in mass production, which is the complete opposite of what F1 teams do.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_killie Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, RAG said: I’ve not seen anyone blatantly ignoring it. Obviously people in a country of 65m will have been ignoring it, but there’s far more risk from people using Trains, Buses and Supermarkets at present. Even vending machines are banned in Italy, so we can add taking a tenner out the bank machine to the list of new dangerous things that might risk anyones life if they’re unlucky,. This new reality might take some time to set in for some, not everyones clued up and thoughtful towards others - some through no fault of their own. Chum over the border lives in Bala sent me this as car park was rammed. It's a popular lake in mid Wales Edited March 28, 2020 by Shropshire_killie Added a bit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 They’re using dead deer in laybys in Ballachulish. Is 4m30secs into this,, Big difference between a few stray kids and ****s in camper vans from Italy, or indeed Prince Charles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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