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Scaremongering or Not, Corona Virus = Nae Killie


Andy

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20 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

But us it medical grade?  There are lots of different parities generated.

Commercial oxygen production is split 55% steel smelting, 20% chemical industry, 25% medical and water - according to wikipedia.

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I don't think anybody disputes the fact the more testing is done, the more data you have and therefore, the stronger position you're in, so why isn't it happening?

We're locking down millions of people who might not have the virus, and that is an unsustainable situation long term without testing testing testing.

I would think transmission is pretty low outside the city hotspots, so set up mass community testing, which checks the intensity in a particular area. Isolate infected cases and trace as many of their contacts as possible, which then helps suppresses transmission of the epidemic as soon as possible. 

This could then help loosen the isolation in certain areas in a controlled manner and get local economies going again so we don't end up with a long lockdown, no jobs to go back to and mass unemployment.

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39 minutes ago, Scooter said:

I don't think anybody disputes the fact the more testing is done, the more data you have and therefore, the stronger position you're in, so why isn't it happening?

We're locking down millions of people who might not have the virus, and that is an unsustainable situation long term without testing testing testing.

I would think transmission is pretty low outside the city hotspots, so set up mass community testing, which checks the intensity in a particular area. Isolate infected cases and trace as many of their contacts as possible, which then helps suppresses transmission of the epidemic as soon as possible. 

This could then help loosen the isolation in certain areas in a controlled manner and get local economies going again so we don't end up with a long lockdown, no jobs to go back to and mass unemployment.

Cmon this isn’t a time to talk sense 

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1 hour ago, Scooter said:

I don't think anybody disputes the fact the more testing is done, the more data you have and therefore, the stronger position you're in, so why isn't it happening?

We're locking down millions of people who might not have the virus, and that is an unsustainable situation long term without testing testing testing.

I would think transmission is pretty low outside the city hotspots, so set up mass community testing, which checks the intensity in a particular area. Isolate infected cases and trace as many of their contacts as possible, which then helps suppresses transmission of the epidemic as soon as possible. 

This could then help loosen the isolation in certain areas in a controlled manner and get local economies going again so we don't end up with a long lockdown, no jobs to go back to and mass unemployment.

Transmission is more common than you think.  If and it is an if the numbers of infected are 10% of the actual and they are doubling every 2 days then mass lockdown is the only way to curb it.

but it needs to be drastic AND global.  1 month total lockdown apart from food distribution, police and healthcare workers.

the world needs to stop at the same time for a set period to allow the virus to be brought completely under control and stopped.

but that will take coordinations and power hungry w****rs to forgoe their egos and stop lining their own pockets and those of the elite.  WMs centralisation I’d testing kit procurement is the most obvious face saving and life costing effort seen in many a year.  Footnote, not a single unionist in here has condemned it,  they’re as bad as the Tories themselves.

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More lies have been uncovered regarding the 'missed email' concerning the mass purchasing of ventilators. 

Turns out the UK attended 8 out of 12 meetings of the EU Health Security Committee and at least four of those meetings discussed the procurement program.  There were also telephone calls about the matter as well.

 

When are folk going to wake up and see this shower for what they really are..... their self serving attitude is now costing hundreds, maybe thousands of people's lives.

 

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/uk-discussed-joint-eu-plan-to-buy-covid-19-medical-supplies-say-officials

The reason for the shenanigans on buying ventilators seems clear. They thought that cooperating with the EU in any circumstances would look bad and offer negative headlines. 

But a ventilator has no sovereignty. We can take back control and still help people to breathe.

It's clear this government was offered help by the EU, refused it, and then lied to cover it up.

Liars gonna keep on lying! o.O
 

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It's not just about vents though, is it?

Why the hell are our doctors and nurses relying on charity and Crowdfunder campaigns like Masks for NHS Heroes; the one that James McAvoy has given £275,000 to; to increase the number of CE certified face masks, visors, surgical gowns and gloves available to healthcare workers.

If this necessary PPE is available to buy on the open market, why the hell isn't the government buying it?

 

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How on earth can we have confidence and respect in these particular "scientists" advising government when  two days ago one said he could see "green shoots", and a plateau had been reached. Well looks like a new plateau has been reached today doesnt it son?. There is absolutely no point in them attending conferences any more imo as no credibility whatsoever. 

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18 minutes ago, Shropshire_killie said:

How on earth can we have confidence and respect in these particular "scientists" advising government when  two days ago one said he could see "green shoots", and a plateau had been reached. Well looks like a new plateau has been reached today doesnt it son?. There is absolutely no point in them attending conferences any more imo as no credibility whatsoever. 

Couldn't even make a guess that things had topped out until the middle of next week at the earliest once the lockdown had been in place for 2 weeks which is supposed to be the incubation period.  Allow another 1-2 weeks as a buffer, and then look at the figures to see where we are.

 

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6 hours ago, chubbs said:

Couldn't even make a guess that things had topped out until the middle of next week at the earliest once the lockdown had been in place for 2 weeks which is supposed to be the incubation period.  Allow another 1-2 weeks as a buffer, and then look at the figures to see where we are.

 

I'm losing faith in the public’s ability to allow lockdown to be fully effective. Companies are playing with employees health and well-being. People are still treating it as a holiday. A spell of good weather then there is no way folk will stay in the house. And London is a disaster waiting to happen. For me further restrictions will be needed to give it a proper chance.

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11 minutes ago, piffer said:

I'm losing faith in the public’s ability to allow lockdown to be fully effective. Companies are playing with employees health and well-being. People are still treating it as a holiday. A spell of good weather then there is no way folk will stay in the house. And London is a disaster waiting to happen. For me further restrictions will be needed to give it a proper chance.

Imo Bojo is counting on the public’s inability to observe a lockdown, to shift the blame from him and onto them for the unnecessarily high losses of life. However I wouldn’t be surprised to see more stringent lockdown conditions brought in over the coming weeks as the Tories try to emphasise the public’s failure to heed the previous guidance. 

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I can't speak about the public's observance of the guidelines because I only see my immediate surrounding area, if I'm out at all. 

However, the fact that 90% of deaths are amongst those aged over 60 must, you would think, instil in the young the idea that they are immune, or aren't going to die, at least.

I don't know how you eradicate that when the sun's shining and there is a temptation to go out and mix. Saying that they could pass it on to their grannies might not be a strong enough deterrent.

 

 

Edited by skygod
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Other folk are posting reminders of what life was like at this time so it will appear on their timelines in years to come. I'm going to keep updating the shambles and lies of the government's response to this crisis so we never forget how badly our elected leaders failed us..

Boris Johnson response timeline to Covid-19 – updated April 3rd with Hancock’s lies about testing kits.

2019 General Election, Johnson promises 50,000 more nurses for the NHS. 40,000 have left the profession during the decade of austerity, 11,000 foreign nurses have departed after the Brexit vote. Numbers of police (Johnson promises 20,000 more), fire fighters, and doctors have all fallen heavily in the last decade. Many essential services in child care and social provision have had funding cuts of up to 70% in the past decade. The national debt has tripled under austerity.

Jan 11th – first death in Wuhan

Jan 29th – first confirmed cases in UK

Jan 31st – Joseph Wu of Stamford University advises “preparedness plans should be readied for deployment at short notice, including securing supply chains of pharmaceuticals, personal protective equipment, hospital supplies, and the necessary human resources to deal with the consequences of a global outbreak of this magnitude.” 

Boris Johnson and the UK government do nothing for weeks.

February 19th – First deaths reported in Iran and Hong Kong

February 20th – first death reported in South Korea, first case reported in Canada.

February 21st – First death in Italy, first cases in Israel and Lebanon.

Feb 28th – first UK death and first transmission cases within UK. Dominic Cummings is claimed to have said ‘if some pensioners die, too bad.’

February 24th – Stock markets crash after rise in deaths over the weekend, first cases reported across the Middle East.

February 25th – First cases in Austria, Croatia, Switzerland.

February 26th – First cases in Greece, Norway, Romania and other countries. In the UK, no action is being taken to test passengers arriving from abroad, this will continue until the virus has reached pandemic proportions in the UK.

March 3rd – Johnson says he visited a hospital with coronavirus patients, says he shook hands with everybody there, and says official advice is just to wash your hands afterwards. 73 countries now have Covid-19 cases, there have been deaths in 12 countries. Global death toll stands at 3,132. (10)

March 4th – Matt Hancock says the impact of physical greetings such as shaking hands is negligible.

March 5th – The UK registers its first death from coronavirus. Confusion surrounds testing and recording though, this confusion will last for weeks.

March 10th – Nadine Dorries tests positive after attending government meetings. It will be weeks before key frontline NHS staff can be routinely tested. 

March 12th – Johnson advises that we shouldn’t go on cruise ships, says children shouldn’t go on trips abroad, people with symptoms should stay at home. Advice, not enforceable. Johnson is interviewed talking about herd immunity.

March 13th – Many UK sports announce self closure with the exception of Cheltenham Festival, numerous race goers late report catching Covid 19. Many businesses whose nature means that employees can work from home begin home working.

March 16th – UK death toll is now 55.

Johnson advises against large scale gatherings, and advises against going to pubs and restaurants. Hundreds of responsible businesses in hospitality and entertainment announce self-closure to prevent further spread of the disease. Universities have not been ordered to close, but most announce they are to do so.

Imperial College releases a new scientific model showing that the government’s current inaction will overwhelm the NHS and possibly lead to 250,000 deaths in the UK.

The New Statesman reveals that the Government held an NHS pandemic exercise codenamed Cygnus in 2016, the shortcomings of the NHS response, particularly in response to a lack of ventilators, is so poor that the report is buried and not acted upon. Prof Sir Ian Boyd says the poor NHS response is due to lack of funding.  The plan is due to be reviewed in 2019 but is shelved because of the Government’s Brexit planning.

March 18th – Johnson closes schools from the 20th, but because of advisory only status, again, many private educational facilities remain open.

March 19th – UK death toll 144.

March 20th – After thousands of responsible businesses self- close, Johnson, late on every decision, announces that bars, restaurants, cinemas and gyms are to close. 

All this time, flights from all over the world have continued to arrive in the UK with no testing being carried out at airports. Tens of thousands of people have arrived from abroad, including from many countries with high infection rates, and have dispersed into the UK community. There has been no organised testing for NHS frontline workers.

March 21st – UK death toll 230.

March 23rd – Johnson announces that ‘Britons should only go outside to buy food, to exercise once a day, or to go to work if they absolutely cannot work from home.’ Further advice of two metre social distancing is given. 

March 25th – The Speaker of the House of Commons has to repeatedly chide MPs for sitting closer together than two metres.

Matt Hancock says that the government has bought 3.5 million coronavirus testing kits. This is a lie. The Express carries a story on Friday 3rd of April showing that no testing kits have been purchased as yet. Public Health England claim on the 25th that testing kits will be available to companies like Boots and Amazon. On the 3rd April they change their story and say that they are not involved in the procurement of testing kits. (12)

Johnson claims that 10,000 ventilators have been ordered from Dyson. He omits telling the public that these units are in design only, and have not been tested or approved for use. A government official says the actual number of units purchased so far is 50. Fifty ventilators have been procured, that’s a gap of nine thousand, nine hundred and fifty between the Prime Minister’s claim and actual truth. (13)

March 26th – Andrew Raynor of MEC Medical, who manufacture ventilator parts, says Johnson ignored his offer to upscale ventilator production two weeks ago, instead contracts are given to companies who currently have no medical expertise, but by strange coincidence have donated huge sums of money to the Conservative Party and Brexit campaigning, Dyson and JCB.

Johnson says that the UK isn’t taking part in the EU ventilator scheme because they did not receive the email. This is a lie. Matt Hancock had been interviewed on live television a week previously saying that the UK were aware of the scheme but would choose a different path.

March 27th – first large scale testing of frontline NHS staff begins, the BMA says this is long overdue, NHS workers may be self-isolating without needing to, or may have been working in patient care while infected. Johnson and other prominent figures including David Frost and Matt Hancock test positive for Covid 19.

March 28th – 1,028 UK deaths. The Lancet prints an article saying that “Stickers with new expiry dates are being put on PPE that expired in 2016. Doctors have been forced to go to hardware stores to buy their own face masks. Patients with suspected COVID-19 are mixing with non-COVID-19 patients.”

March 30th – 20,000 ex-NHS staff have volunteered to return to work.  Boris Johnson said in Nov 2019 that the NHS required 50,000 more nurses just to return to normal, non-pandemic operational capacity. The entire senior team advising the UK on how to avoid catching Coronavirus have now caught Coronavirus, Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock, Dominic Cummings, Chris Witty.

March 31st – Michael Gove says that “the difficulty in increasing number of #COVID19  tests was due to a shortage of the relevant "chemical reagents". This is a lie.  Journalist Robert Peston immediately contacts the Chemical Industries Association, which represents the UK's chemicals industry.
 
The CIA say there is no shortage of reagents, and furthermore say that during a discussion with government ministers earlier in the day no government minister even asked about supply of reagents. (9)

April 1st – Public Health England says that although the NHS has capacity for 10,000 virus tests a day, only 8,000 are currently being done.  (8)

April 2nd – The Byline Times reports that yet another Tory donor has been awarded a PPE contract. This time it is Clipper Logistics who have zero experience in the field. Many existing ventilator and PPE companies have been passed over by the government earlier in the procurement process (11)

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-pandemic-herd-immunity-uk-boris-johnson/608065/

https://bfpg.co.uk/2020/03/covid-19-timeline/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-boris-johnson-positive-test-health-advice-shaking-hands-hospital-hancock-a9430231.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p087q995

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2020/03/government-documents-show-no-planning-ventilators-event-pandemic

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/fulltext

DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(20)30727-3

(8) https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-test-kits-contaminated-covid-19-a4403021.html

(9) https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1245046542974750720?s=20

(10) https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/updated-timeline-coronavirus

(11) https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/02/disaster-capitalism-conservative-party-donor-cashes-in-on-uk-government-made-ppe-shortages-amidst-covid19-crisis/

(12) https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1264371/coronavirus-testing-kits-healths-secretary-matt-hancock-boris-johnson

(13) https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-27/johnson-s-ventilator-push-hobbled-by-mishaps-and-confusion

 

Lengthy but factual.  Some of this the Scot Gov were also to blame.  But the simple facts through all.of this is total incompetence and lining the pockets of Tory Donors.

We need to get this lot held to account.

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I wonder why the BBC didn’t “go live to Downing Street” for the UK government’s press briefing, until the briefing itself was over and the Q&A had started.  They said repeatedly that they were awaiting the start of the briefing, even though they were reporting the contents of the briefing in their text feed ... I assume it was technical problems, but if so, why not say so...

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On 4/3/2020 at 12:28 PM, Scooter said:

It's not just about vents though, is it?

Why the hell are our doctors and nurses relying on charity and Crowdfunder campaigns like Masks for NHS Heroes; the one that James McAvoy has given £275,000 to; to increase the number of CE certified face masks, visors, surgical gowns and gloves available to healthcare workers.

If this necessary PPE is available to buy on the open market, why the hell isn't the government buying it?

 

You really need to ask this question? (Yes, I know it is rhetorical) 


I’d cancel Trident for starters and divert that money where it’s actually needed . I don’t subscribe to the absurd notion that such a move would leave us “defenceless”. I think we are seeing right now, in the NHS, and in the country, just what  “defenceless” actually means. 

It would be good to think, though probably naive, that the pandemic could prompt a radical rethink from governments on how they protect their citizens in the future and, in particular, how they prioritise their budgets. 
(Unless of course the plan the next time is to nuke the source country at the first hint of an outbreak. Something I probably shouldn’t even joke about lest some amongst our ‘world leaders’ think this a good idea) 

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