Shropshire_killie Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 1 hour ago, RAG said: My living room is upstairs from an opticians! Once the bluetooth tracking app comes in, in all probability, I'll almost certainly flag up as being blacklisted, despite never being on that level of the building. Just a small example, but don't put all your faith in a bluetooth app -if you live above a shop, it'll be woefully inaccurate and full of false positives. But let's say shop open and its windows open too and someone coughs and your window is open RAG and cough particles come up. Its prob that kinda principle I'm guessing thats helping Germany control spread better? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Shropshire_killie said: But let's say shop open and its windows open too and someone coughs and your window is open RAG and cough particles come up. Its prob that kinda principle I'm guessing thats helping Germany control spread better? The place is air conditioned downstairs, so all the air will get sucked out the back. Old building with high ceilings too, so you've be defying gravity, coughing uphill. I've got an upstairs, so am rarely on the 1st floor, but know bluetooth works in the building through ceilings as a result. Not saying tracing apps are a bad idea, just that they will discriminate against people who live above shops as bluetooth goes through walls or ceilings, unlike covid to the best of our knowledge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_killie Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, RAG said: The place is air conditioned downstairs, so all the air will get sucked out the back. Old building with high ceilings too, so you've be defying gravity, coughing uphill. I've got an upstairs, so am rarely on the 1st floor, but know bluetooth works in the building through ceilings as a result. Not saying tracing apps are a bad idea, just that they will discriminate against people who live above shops as bluetooth goes through walls or ceilings, unlike covid to the best of our knowledge. Yeah absolutely fair comment. I guess it be folk like yourself and those in apartments/flats etc may suffer, specially if it becomes law if you do not adhere to it you get fined. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted May 4, 2020 Report Share Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) Anyone care to guess why the U.K. is going it alone with its own contact tracing app when Apple/Google are doing the legwork for the rest of Europe? Edited May 4, 2020 by Zorro 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted May 4, 2020 Report Share Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zorro said: Anyone care to guess why the U.K. is going alone with its own contact tracing app when Apple/Google are doing the legwork for the rest of Europe? Use of a centralised data collection/database In the NHS app, which is then used to track/trace the user, but without the usual encrypted ‘random identifiers‘ apple or google use as an, ‘address’ for your phone, to protect your privacy. Edited May 4, 2020 by RAG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 7 hours ago, RAG said: Use of a centralised data collection/database In the NHS app, which is then used to track/trace the user, but without the usual encrypted ‘random identifiers‘ apple or google use as an, ‘address’ for your phone, to protect your privacy. That sounds like something we should be concerned about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbs Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 Seen that a CDC report has been leaked which says that they are expecting the number of new cases to rise from 25,000 to 200,000 per day by June 1st ... with the number of deaths expected to double to around 3,000 per day. That is WITHOUT the lockdown being abandoned or shortened like Trump wants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 10 hours ago, Zorro said: Anyone care to guess why the U.K. is going it alone with its own contact tracing app when Apple/Google are doing the legwork for the rest of Europe? No idea , perhaps like the EU ventilators situation they think they can do better on our own . It all depends on who you trust more 2 American tech companies who already hold more information about us than we know about or your own government. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said: No idea , perhaps like the EU ventilators situation they think they can do better on our own . It all depends on who you trust more 2 American tech companies who already hold more information about us than we know about or your own government. The tech company obviously. Especially when the American tech companies will anonymise the data, are encrypting it and aren’t storing it on a database. There’s also the possibility that they’re probably the best people to design and implement a system to run on their platforms. Edited May 5, 2020 by Zorro 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_killie Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 No wonder they "excited", about their app. Assholes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bonbon19 said: No idea , perhaps like the EU ventilators situation they think they can do better on our own . It all depends on who you trust more 2 American tech companies who already hold more information about us than we know about or your own government. 'doing better on their own' wasn't why they didn't join the EU procurement scheme though, eh? A Senior Foreign Office official told MPs it was a political decision, that ministers refused the scheme because UK had left EU. Then they lied, again, by trying to cover it up by saying the email 'got lost' or went to the Spam folder or something?!? Do you trust this government not to sell your data to insurance companies? Edited May 5, 2020 by Scooter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Scooter said: 'doing better on their own' wasn't why they didn't join the EU procurement scheme though, eh? A Senior Foreign Office official told MPs it was a political decision, that ministers refused the scheme because UK had left EU. Then they lied, again, by trying to cover it up by saying the email 'got lost' or went to the Spam folder or something?!? Do you trust this government not to sell your data to insurance companies? How did everybody with a mobile get a text message from HM Govt ? That seemed all too easy to me , I certainly didn’t give my mobile provider permission for the govt to contact me . I do however trust a govt not to deliberately abuse the information they have on me , which when you think about it is vast . There will be lapses of security , people with ulterior motives and a myriad of reasons for data being leaked , mostly down to individuals imo but I don’t subscribe to the notion that 1984 is a reality. I do however believe that the tech giants are a more dangerous entity wrt our data . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Zorro said: That sounds like something we should be concerned about. The weasel wording of the launch of the app on the BBC article was more interesting. Said it wouldn't track OTHERS phones without using randomised data and would only collect the first 3 digits of your postcode at the START - with no middle, or end to this story listed. If it was any other app you wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. It wouldn't be allowed for download on google play or the App Store due to how it harvests data and stores it centrally, unlike on your phone on apple/google versions. Compatibility is also an issue, if everyone in Europe's using the apple or google version and we have the NHS bespoke variant. It probably won't be an international bio passport - which is ultimately what these things are designed for. Want into a pub in 2021? Best make sure you got the app. 'Elf and Safety in the workplace and all that.. Edited May 5, 2020 by RAG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bonbon19 said: I do however believe that the tech giants are a more dangerous entity with our data . Depends what the tech giants business is. Googles business is your data. Apple make their money selling expensive phones, not the data held within them. Edited May 5, 2020 by RAG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 54 minutes ago, RAG said: Depends what the tech giants business is. Googles business is your data. Apple make their money selling expensive phones, not the data held within them. Apple aren’t squeaky clean in data holding and selling . Articles in the Washington Post , the Atlantic and Kimkomando says otherwise . Not as bad as Google and Facebook mind you . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said: Apple aren’t squeaky clean in data holding and selling . Articles in the Washington Post , the Atlantic and Kimkomando says otherwise . Not as bad as Google and Facebook mind you . If you want a secure phone, use a Motorola Razr from 2005. The amount of data collected by google is off the chart in comparison to apple. As an example, all you have to do is install an app on android or iOS and see what addtiuonal access to your unrelated data it requests on the Android version. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Bonbon19 said: I do however believe that the tech giants are a more dangerous entity wrt our data . Doesn't matter a stuff who has the data, it's the fact the dara exists. Given it exists somebody malevolent will make it their kudos mission to abuse ut. I think this app thing is a really hideous idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 41 minutes ago, RAG said: If you want a secure phone, use a Motorola Razr from 2005. The amount of data collected by google is off the chart in comparison to apple. As an example, all you have to do is install an app on android or iOS and see what addtiuonal access to your unrelated data it requests on the Android version. I’ve still got a Nokia 3210 is that any good 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said: I’ve still got a Nokia 3210 is that any good Depends on the vintage of your SIM card. New SIMs (depending on network) work on 3G or 4G phones, but don't support old 2G devices like a 3210. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 I think we need a track and trace app to map an apparent outbreak of anticipatory obedience and compliance. The idea that the U.K. government is a benevolent or benign establishment, led by pious and altruistic individuals is ludicrous. FFS they’ve just tried to explain us surpassing Italy’s covid-19 death toll by suggesting we’re better at collecting data than those ‘bloody foreigners’. They can’t even admit the truth about the daily testing targets. And while we’re on the subject of testing, I’ve heard it suggested the posted tests are likely to have a far higher rate of false negatives as people are unlikely to be able to swab in the manner required. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, Zorro said: FFS they’ve just tried to explain us surpassing Italy’s covid-19 death toll by suggesting we’re better at collecting data than those ‘bloody foreigners’. They can’t even admit the truth about the daily testing targets. I just read a BBC article on that very subject. At no point did it mention that in the UK, older folk are 350% more likely to be in a care home than Italians. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_killie Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 35 minutes ago, Zorro said: I think we need a track and trace app to map an apparent outbreak of anticipatory obedience and compliance. The idea that the U.K. government is a benevolent or benign establishment, led by pious and altruistic individuals is ludicrous. FFS they’ve just tried to explain us surpassing Italy’s covid-19 death toll by suggesting we’re better at collecting data than those ‘bloody foreigners’. They can’t even admit the truth about the daily testing targets. And while we’re on the subject of testing, I’ve heard it suggested the posted tests are likely to have a far higher rate of false negatives as people are unlikely to be able to swab in the manner required. Absolutely sickening watching that. And their answer....."we've got to wait til the end"....Thought it was a good, albeit as always, tortuous question by Peston today as he cleverly reeled the medical"expert", into admitting we should be trying more to emulate South Korea 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, RAG said: I just read a BBC article on that very subject. At no point did it mention that in the UK, older folk are 350% more likely to be in a care home than Italians. They don’t mention that the Italians had more confirmed cases either. The U.K. death rate is staggering. Unfortunately you need to look to foreign based media to get a true reflection of what’s happening here. Edited May 5, 2020 by Zorro 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Zorro said: They don’t mention that the Italians had more confirmed cases either. The U.K. death rate is staggering. Unfortunately you need to look to foreign based media to get a true reflection of what’s happening here. Death rate is 59% higher in England compared to Scotland. (461 vs 290 deaths per million). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_killie Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 Just remember Raabs words today"we have the worlds best people at counting stuff". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.