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Scaremongering or Not, Corona Virus = Nae Killie


Andy

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35 minutes ago, harley said:

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This "app" thing aint gonna work. I am already less than reassured about its data security, never mind what it might be used for at some later time. And I know a humungus number of people way more sceptical of the government than I am.

Cummings and his mates remind me of a loads of folks I knew at Strathclyde Uni in the late 70's early 80s. They totally mistook the fact they were quite gifted in one small area of one larger discipline for having godlike omniscience. My first question to all of them would be, "If you are so f**king clever about absolutely everything in the whole wide world, how come you don't have a girlfriend?"  

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21 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

As I’ve said on another thread no govt can countenance the actions of one person . I advise you to read In Defence Of The Realm if you like conspiracies . 

I read The Defence of The Realm when I came out, same book? The Secret World (same guy iirc) and spy catcher are also interesting insights. But the trouble with these type of books is what’s not in them rather than what is. 

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10 minutes ago, Zorro said:

I read The Defence of The Realm when I came out, same book? The Secret World (same guy iirc) and spy catcher are also interesting insights. But the trouble with these type of books is what’s not in them rather than what is. 

Yup that’s the book . Spy catcher I thought was quite revealing too. I recommend GCHQ by Aldrich (? ) Again as you say  it left me wondering what wasn’t said . 

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1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

It is hard to understand these people. They can see the bald figures of the deaths these actions cause, right in front of them. It's not like they are just not following somebody else's guidance. They have sat down and worked it out themselves from the raw data. Then ignored it. Einstein was right, "only 2 things in life are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not too certain about the universe".

There’s a big difference between a CORGI registered gas engineer repairing their own boiler and a member of the general public ignoring warnings not to touch them. IMO there’s two things at work here. Firstly he’s a highly trained scientist so knows all the correct precautions to take, so he is making an informed decision. There’s a huge difference between that and Joe Bloggs putting on a pair of gloves and thinking that makes them safe in the supermarket. The second is that because he’s faced with all the data and everyone questioning or second guessing his advice, the need to blow of a little steam must be huge. It must be hard to look at the death toll mounting and not feel some responsibility. 
 

I don’t work at anything like the level he does, but I routinely ignore government advice because of the pressure I feel under. I drive far too fast on my way home, I drink way too much on my days off and my hour of daily exercise a day, often turns into 2-3 hours tracking round the forests, lochs and hills around my area. The need to let of steam is just too overpowering. 

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1 hour ago, Bonbon19 said:

I’m a unionist what do you expect ? 
 

Your life would be so boring without us ! 

I'd expect some form of self awareness instead if simply finding ever more pushy whataboutery to justify and excuse their blatant media manipulation.

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6 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

I'd expect some form of self awareness instead if simply finding ever more pushy whataboutery to justify and excuse their blatant media manipulation.

Again I ask have you evidence of your accusation of media manipulation in this instance ? 

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11 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

Again I ask have you evidence of your accusation of media manipulation in this instance ? 

I have no evidence but what I would say is that the powers that be would have to be hugely naive not to be pulling the meeja's strings whenever they can. I do not believe they are naive. Incompetent as f**k but not naive.

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1 hour ago, Zorro said:

I don’t work at anything like the level he does, but I routinely ignore government advice because of the pressure I feel under. I drive far too fast on my way home, I drink way too much on my days off and my hour of daily exercise a day, often turns into 2-3 hours tracking round the forests, lochs and hills around my area. The need to let of steam is just too overpowering. 

I understand what you are saying here. I have also been driving at speeds not recommended by the local council because the roads are empty and spending a lot more than my allocated time out walking in order to avoid a huge bout of claustrophobia.

However there is a universe of difference between what some might think of as "socially irresponsible behaviour" and telling people, "Don't do that it's f**king dangerous!" and then doing exactly that yourself.

Even if you believe the rules that have been constructed to implement your recommendations are oversimplified and lack nuance, if you want people to do what you say and take you seriously you have to "lead from the front". It is that simple. NO excuses. If you think the rules are unrealistic then change the rules. If you believe you simply cant follow the rules then why in the name of heaven would you think others would. If you don't have the temperament for this approach then find another job away from the public domain.  

 

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My main issue with what's going on is this blinkered govt belief that if we "wait til the end", it will show "us", in a better light. That is the govt stance. It's the  wrong way and has been for 2 months. It is this blinkered statement that everything will even out that is continuing to cost lives and the same approach could lead to a disaster next January. The issue with Ferguson deflecting from the main story of the day is possibly co-incidental but you cant help but be cynical when you know the characters at play here in particular slime ball Cummings 

On a side note, I thought Starmer made Johnson look a right bumbling evasive twat today

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12 minutes ago, Shropshire_killie said:

On a side note, I thought Starmer made Johnson look a right bumbling evasive twat today

Which is why I think we will see less and less of old BoJo over the coming months until, as Skygod suggested he quietly reties because of post covid fatigue and to "spend more time with his family".

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6 hours ago, Zorro said:

Firstly he’s a highly trained scientist so knows all the correct precautions to take, so he is making an informed decision. There’s a huge difference between that and Joe Bloggs putting on a pair of gloves and thinking that makes them safe in the supermarket. The second is that because he’s faced with all the data and everyone questioning or second guessing his advice, the need to blow of a little steam must be huge. It must be hard to look at the death toll mounting and not feel some responsibility. 

IMO it's ultimately a guess, or a gamble, they take as to how best to combat covid, based on the knowledge available.  All informed decisions will be based on probability more than fact.  Yet if the outcome is 'improbable' the decision taken will be considered as  'wrong'.  Or the modelling was 'wrong'.  

Is a bit like rolling a dice.  If you could only cover 5 sides and go with 1-5, yet it fell as a 6, did you make the 'wrong' decision?   Ferguson also believed in lockdown till a vaccine was found, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if Boris opens up the country on Sunday.  After all,  now they have their 'patsy'.

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3 minutes ago, RAG said:

IMO it's ultimately a guess, or a gamble, they take as to how best to combat covid, based on the knowledge available.  All informed decisions will be based on probability more than fact.  Yet if the outcome is 'improbable' the decision taken will be considered as  'wrong'.  Or the modelling was 'wrong'.  

Is a bit like rolling a dice.  If you could only cover 5 sides and go with 1-5, yet it fell as a 6, did you make the 'wrong' decision?   Ferguson also believed in lockdown till a vaccine was found, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if Boris opens up the country on Sunday.  After all,  now they have their 'patsy'.

Looks like Tory Donors are opening the country

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44 minutes ago, killie1961 said:

Looks like Tory Donors are opening the country

The whole lockdown was based on not trying to not exceed the NHS' capacity like Italy.  NHS not at capacity, so the Lockdown could end.  

R numbers mean nothing, if the UK is losing money hand over fist. 

So long as £X00bn lost economically , divided by total number of deaths, is a bigger number than whatever value gov put on an individual life, lockdown could end - if NHS capacity is not exceeded.  They do that sort of macabre calculation in the NHS every single day - is why expensive medical treatments are refused.

For absolute balance, the only sympathy I have for UK Tories is they have to weigh  economic aspect far more than SNP up here, given UKs absolute control of the big levers of the Scots economy.  NS can afford to focus on r numbers more than £.  Boris has more of an impossible, tightrope balancing act between the 2.

In shielding its hospitals from COVID-19, Britain left many of the weakest exposed

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-britain-elderly/

 

Edited by RAG
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15 hours ago, RAG said:

NHS not at capacity, so the Lockdown could end.  

The reason the NHS was not driven beyond capacity was because of the lockdown. Take the lockdown away and the logical outcome is that the NHS will be driven beyond capacity by a second spike.

Don't take the lockdown away and the economy will fairly certainly take a kicking it will never recover from.

Its a tricky one.

My best guess is they will flag up a very gradual easing of the lockdown, people may well go bat-s**t crazy and the infection could then spike back up again. Noting is certain.

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8 hours ago, Scooter said:

No doubt that 'coming out of lockdown' will involve a cost-benefit analysis, shame it's being done by mysteriously funded far-right gouls instead of sensible, compassionate, caring people.

Had our chance and a mixture of cheating, lying treachery and people s**tting it made sure we remain stuck to the vermin in WM.

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2 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

Had our chance and a mixture of cheating, lying treachery and people s**tting it made sure we remain stuck to the vermin in WM.

Seems like we voted to be part of the country with the worst response to a global infection anywhere in Europe.

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7 hours ago, gdevoy said:

Seems like we voted to be part of the country with the worst response to a global infection anywhere in Europe.

Don’t we have the worst state pension too? Not content with making OAP’s live in poverty, the U.K. government is also content for them to die earlier if their response to this pandemic is anything to go by. 

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1 hour ago, Zorro said:

Don’t we have the worst state pension too? Not content with making OAP’s live in poverty, the U.K. government is also content for them to die earlier if their response to this pandemic is anything to go by. 

Not quite re the pension as per this chart . It doesn’t mention free healthcare though . 
 

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1 hour ago, Bonbon19 said:

Not quite re the pension as per this chart . It doesn’t mention free healthcare though . 
 

23601EC7-8088-4D46-85FD-3A1BBC92DBA4.jpeg

It does use some very subjective measurements though. It reminds me of when the U.K. government started measuring happiness. 

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54 minutes ago, Zorro said:

It does use some very subjective measurements though. It reminds me of when the U.K. government started measuring happiness. 

Agreed , our OAPs should be paid more but unfortunately now even if it’s desirable it will be undeliverable given the state of our finances 

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Talking of finances, came across a story about an entire UK order of 250 Chinese ventilators being ditched over danger to lives. Doctors found breathing kits were so badly made they feared they could kill patients.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/30/entire-order-of-250-chinese-ventilators-were-useless-despite

Doesn't mention how much was lost but bet it was in the millions! 

Looks like we couldn't do better on our own after all and panic bought the first thing they could get their hands on. Bang goes the calls for any old unregulated s**t that you don't give a f**k where they come from just get them on site ASAP, eh?

Oh, and Dyson did not, and will not, be supplying ventilators to the UK either.

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