Fill Yer Boots, Folks!

[Bonbon19]

2 hours ago, Cheviotstag said:

I agree with pretty much all of this. 
There have been mistakes, but most of the mistakes have been as a consequence of following the UK wide strategy, an irony which seems to have been completely lost on hypocrites like Davidson and Carlaw. 

 

But Sturgeon convened her own Scientific Advisory panel on Covid on the 25th of March to advise on how best to tackle this crisis . Has she been listening to them or the UK govts SAGE advice ? 

[Cheviotstag]

29 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

But Sturgeon convened her own Scientific Advisory panel on Covid on the 25th of March to advise on how best to tackle this crisis . Has she been listening to them or the UK govts SAGE advice ? 

Probably Listening to both.
 I suspect however that the worst of the damage had already been done by that point In terms of the prevalence of the virus in the community and everything since then has been about damage limitation. 

 

 

[Cheviotstag]

3 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

I would wish you well with all of that. At the moment, sadly, on your last point, I see a very parochial inward looking country with a victim mentality and no evidence that we are more welcoming than anyone else. One of my fears is it would actually get worse with independence and the subsequent financial stresses.  

Your comment on “parochial” is interesting

Many of my pro-Indy buddies are more interested in looking to what is happening in comparably-sized independent nation states such as Ireland, Denmark, Finland, Norway and the Baltic states as a benchmark, rather than looking to England or other larger countries. There is much Scotland can learn from the 30 or so independent nation states with less than 10 million population which currently exist in Europe. None of them appear to be doing too shabbily.

A post-Brexit UK is as close to the epitome of insularity and parochialism as we are ever likely to see.

We should aspire for better, even if there is likely to be a bit of investment or growing pains in the first decade

[Shropshire_killie]

4 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

I would wish you well with all of that. At the moment, sadly, on your last point, I see a very parochial inward looking country with a victim mentality and no evidence that we are more welcoming than anyone else. One of my fears is it would actually get worse with independence and the subsequent financial stresses.  

McLean!! You really summed things up on this but in the context that you you have perfectly described your viewpoint. "Parochial and inward looking", It's pretty clear there have been mistakes in all of this but the main driver is the UK govt as perfectly described by Zorro earlier. 

[Bonbon19]

2 hours ago, Cheviotstag said:

Probably Listening to both.
 I suspect however that the worst of the damage had already been done by that point In terms of the prevalence of the virus in the community and everything since then has been about damage limitation. 

 

 

Possibly but the damage to care homes hadn’t peaked and as that’s now the biggest contributor to the number of deaths in Scotland it rather debunks your first statement . 
Both advisory groups got it very wrong wrt care homes as the figures clearly show but it’s seems that in Scotland there’s a disproportionate amount of blame laid at SAGE ,therefore the WM govt , when Holyroods own advisors got it wrong as well .
It also seems to me that the panel was a waste of time and money if the Scottish govt were getting and following 2 sets of advice that didn’t differ .I hope there will be some sort of inquiry as to the efficacy of this group after all this is over , there usually is when govts convene these sort of panels , it will be interesting to compare their deliberations with SAGE . 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Bonbon19

[Zorro]

36 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

Possibly but the damage to care homes hadn’t peaked and as that’s now the biggest contributor to the number of deaths in Scotland it rather debunks your first statement . 
Both advisory groups got it very wrong wrt care homes as the figures clearly show but it’s seems that in Scotland there’s a disproportionate amount of blame laid at SAGE ,therefore the WM govt , when Holyroods own advisors got it wrong as well .
It also seems to me that the panel was a waste of time and money if the Scottish govt were getting and following 2 sets of advice that didn’t differ .I hope there will be some sort of inquiry as to the efficacy of this group after all this is over , there usually is when govts convene these sort of panels , it will be interesting to compare their deliberations with SAGE . 

The spike and eventual peak in care home deaths came after the Scottish government implemented compulsory testing for all hospital discharged to care homes though. This completely debunks the private care business narrative that the blame for so unnecessary deaths should be attributed to the NHS. This time line was confirmed on QT last Thursday. 

[Zorro]

6 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

I would wish you well with all of that. At the moment, sadly, on your last point, I see a very parochial inward looking country with a victim mentality and no evidence that we are more welcoming than anyone else. One of my fears is it would actually get worse with independence and the subsequent financial stresses.  

Hopefully we’ll both be living in my utopia some time soon. However I would point to the results in the Scottish independence and the U.K. brexit referendums as proof that the people of Scotland are keener to work and live with their neighbors than the majority of U.K. citizens. I think those results completely undermine your opinion. 

[Bonbon19]

39 minutes ago, Zorro said:

The spike and eventual peak in care home deaths came after the Scottish government implemented compulsory testing for all hospital discharged to care homes though. This completely debunks the private care business narrative that the blame for so unnecessary deaths should be attributed to the NHS. This time line was confirmed on QT last Thursday. 

I particularly like the 2nd last paragraph on the second page 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Bonbon19

[Mclean07]

6 hours ago, Cheviotstag said:

I agree with pretty much all of this. 
There have been mistakes, but most of the mistakes have been as a consequence of following the UK wide strategy, an irony which seems to have been completely lost on hypocrites like Davidson and Carlaw. 

 

And the Elsie argument reappears. It always somebody elsie’s fault. It’s unbelievable the low standards Scots have come to accept from their Government, because they’ve been brainwashed by grievance. 717 deaths per million people, massive failures (continuing) in testing, FM lying about not seeing advice, hiding outbreaks, discharging people untested into homes. It’s just embarrassing the lack of responsibility we take. And if an opposition party or the press raise a question they’re scum and anti Scottish. Absolute replica of the English Nationslust Tory Party in your reaction to criticism. Bring out the patriot card. Trump as well. Not near grown up enough for independence. Thank goodness we have Smiffy.

 

[Zorro]

5 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

 

You think the Scottish government are responsible for decisions impacting the NHS in england? It’s a bit of a stretch but I’m willing to be convinced if you show your workings 

[Cheviotstag]

2 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

And the Elsie argument reappears. It always somebody elsie’s fault. It’s unbelievable the low standards Scots have come to accept from their Government, because they’ve been brainwashed by grievance. 717 deaths per million people, massive failures (continuing) in testing, FM lying about not seeing advice, hiding outbreaks, discharging people untested into homes. It’s just embarrassing the lack of responsibility we take. And if an opposition party or the press raise a question they’re scum and anti Scottish. Absolute replica of the English Nationslust Tory Party in your reaction to criticism. Bring out the patriot card. Trump as well. Not near grown up enough for independence. Thank goodness we have Smiffy.

 

My post had f**k all to do with grievance 

The Scottish Govt will be accountable for its role in a full enquiry afterwards. It was part of the 4 nation approach and will take full responsibility for its role in that approach . 

Everyone knows that mistakes have been made. Nobody is denying that

The stuff In your reply about “scum and anti-Scottish” is lamentable pish that I won’t be dignifying with a response 

 

[Cheviotstag]

1 hour ago, Bonbon19 said:

Possibly but the damage to care homes hadn’t peaked and as that’s now the biggest contributor to the number of deaths in Scotland it rather debunks your first statement . 
Both advisory groups got it very wrong wrt care homes as the figures clearly show but it’s seems that in Scotland there’s a disproportionate amount of blame laid at SAGE ,therefore the WM govt , when Holyroods own advisors got it wrong as well .
It also seems to me that the panel was a waste of time and money if the Scottish govt were getting and following 2 sets of advice that didn’t differ .I hope there will be some sort of inquiry as to the efficacy of this group after all this is over , there usually is when govts convene these sort of panels , it will be interesting to compare their deliberations with SAGE . 

Agree with you that there will need to be a full review afterwards on all aspects of how the pandemic was handled in the care home sector. 
it will also need to lead onto a review of how the sector is organised and funded generally and what lessons can be learned for the future 

[Bonbon19]

2 hours ago, Zorro said:

You think the Scottish government are responsible for decisions impacting the NHS in england? It’s a bit of a stretch but I’m willing to be convinced if you show your workings 

No that wasn’t the point of my post just the sentiment I added after the original post . 
Tbh I got distracted by a bottle of Zinfandel and as much as I enjoy our deliberations it wins every time . 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Bonbon19
Wine drinking edit

[Mclean07]

40 minutes ago, Cheviotstag said:

My post had f**k all to do with grievance 

The Scottish Govt will be accountable for its role in a full enquiry afterwards. It was part of the 4 nation approach and will take full responsibility for its role in that approach . 

Everyone knows that mistakes have been made. Nobody is denying that

The stuff In your reply about “scum and anti-Scottish” is lamentable pish that I won’t be dignifying with a response 

 

It’s out there every single day. Read any Scottish Labour/Tory/Liberal’s twitter feed  or any Scottish journalist’s  feed and you’ll see it in all its glory. Anti Scottish, scum media, Etc etc. Without doubt, the Brexiteers and the Cybernats are the worst offenders. Consumed with hatred and grievance. 

[Mclean07]

6 hours ago, Mcilroy56 said:

When you are on your hourly twitter troll do you never come across any derogatory comments from Unionists towards NS or SNP followers, or any adverse reports of Labour MP’s/ Councillors having made errors of judgement ? Or do you just ignore them. Let me tell you there are thousands out there on a daily basis and they aren’t that hard to find. I just can’t be bothered joining your childish antics.

My post was highlighting SNP people’s criticism of their own supporters as they are fast realising calling every political opponent anti Scottish, traitors, Red Tories (you’ll recognise that one) etc instead of engaging in a debate is self defeating. It also highlighted an SNP elected official condemning SNP supporters appropriating other people’s suffering again inspired by the infantile and frankly offensive claims of “Lomdon masters” and “oppressed” s**t that is spouted all the time. A gross insult to people who really are oppressed and not subsidised to the eyeballs for middle class perks by another country. I further highlighted a woman of colour receiving racist abuse from “progressive” nationalists for simply asking for a comment from NS on the situation in the USA. I regularly target the tories I other social media, but as the mini  mob have managed to sicken any stray tories away from here, there’s not much point in talking to no one. The method I use to highlight my arguments is the easiest way, as it’s too time consuming to argue individually when the ratio against you is at least ten to one. One has to act efficiently and all that. And no, I rarely see abuse from Labour people of the nature of the Cybernats used against SNP politicians or the media. Nothing like it. 

 

[Cheviotstag]

11 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

It’s out there every single day. Read any Scottish Labour/Tory/Liberal’s twitter feed  or any Scottish journalist’s  feed and you’ll see it in all its glory. Anti Scottish, scum media, Etc etc. Without doubt, the Brexiteers and the Cybernats are the worst offenders. Consumed with hatred and grievance. 

So am I too consumed with hatred and grievance? Or are you just tarring most pro independence supporters with the same brush?

I have no desire for any conflict on here. There is much many of us won’t agree on, but life is too short  

 

 

[Beaker71]

1 hour ago, Mclean07 said:

It’s out there every single day. Read any Scottish Labour/Tory/Liberal’s twitter feed  or any Scottish journalist’s  feed and you’ll see it in all its glory. Anti Scottish, scum media, Etc etc. Without doubt, the Brexiteers and the Cybernats are the worst offenders. Consumed with hatred and grievance. 

Sxottish labours Scottish tory, Scottish lib dems do not exist.  They are the labour, conservative and unionist and lib dems in Scotland.  Like the nation they are controlled from London. 

All of the media are controlled from London,  with the exception of one newspaper with a smallish circulation. 

This utter pish about cybernats is childish and absolute bollox, in the face of a wall of propaganda, including the BBC.

Your continued trolling on here, with its constant message that we are s**te and should just now down the the mighty WM and be thankful for our ver existence, does your argument absolutely no favours.   In fact it does the opposite.

Your absolute refusal to listen to reason and criticise the shambolic WM handling of the pandemic and post endless bulls**t about how everything is the fault of the FM, is as tiresome as it is nonsense.

Your posts show you as a bitter bitter and filled with loathing for your own nation, your constant efforts at finger pointing and name calling also calls.you out as well.

You play the grievance card every day, yet show you are the one holding the grudge that the Scottish people would dare question your beloved overlords and boot your thoroughly useless self involved warmongering areshole of a party out the door.

[Beaker71]

12 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

My post was highlighting SNP people’s criticism of their own supporters as they are fast realising calling every political opponent anti Scottish, traitors, Red Tories (you’ll recognise that one) etc instead of engaging in a debate is self defeating. It also highlighted an SNP elected official condemning SNP supporters appropriating other people’s suffering again inspired by the infantile and frankly offensive claims of “Lomdon masters” and “oppressed” s**t that is spouted all the time. A gross insult to people who really are oppressed and not subsidised to the eyeballs for middle class perks by another country. I further highlighted a woman of colour receiving racist abuse from “progressive” nationalists for simply asking for a comment from NS on the situation in the USA. I regularly target the tories I other social media, but as the mini  mob have managed to sicken any stray tories away from here, there’s not much point in talking to no one. The method I use to highlight my arguments is the easiest way, as it’s too time consuming to argue individually when the ratio against you is at least ten to one. One has to act efficiently and all that. And no, I rarely see abuse from Labour people of the nature of the Cybernats used against SNP politicians or the media. Nothing like it. 

 

Your having a laugh with that whole post  and you're excuse for refusing to criticise the Tory shambles is an absolute nonsense.

You have gone full britnat lately, you have subconsciously supported the WM givernment against our side of the.  Your absolute refusal to see the constant abuse NS takes from every small minded unionist mororn is beyond belief.

The press constantly badger SNP MPs and let the unionists away with speaking total s**te with no.comeback at all.

As McIlroy states you simply ignore this as it suits your twisted view of the whole situation.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Beaker71

[mackpomm]

Maybe group training by Scottish football clubs shouldn't start until regular testing is available for all Scottish care home workers.

[Mcilroy56]

6 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

Your shaving a laugh with that whole post  and you're excuse for refusing to criticise the Tory shambles is an absolute nonsense.

You have gone full britnat lately, you have subconsciously supported the WM givernment against our side of the.  Your absolute refusal to see the constant abuse NS takes from every small minded unionist mororn is beyond belief.

The press constantly badger SNP MPs and let the unionists away with speaking total s**te with no.comeback at all.

As McIlroy states you simply ignore this as it suits your twisted view of the whole situation.

None as blind as those who do not wish to see

[gdevoy]

14 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

A gross insult to people who really are oppressed and not subsidised to the eyeballs for middle class perks by another country.

I agree 100% with the first part of your sentence but the second half is where you lose it a bit.

First of all Scotland is part of the United Kingdom, it is not subsidised by another country. The UK government finances from which we benefit are supported quite a bit by many, many inputs from Scotland and a pissing up the wall contest is not helpful.

Secondly you seem to have a fixation that what the SNP has done preferentially benefits the better off. This despite having a more nuanced tax system that down south for example.

And by the way I also agree with your point about swimming against the tide trying to say anything -ve about the SNP on here.

[Zorro]

Mcleans “middle class perks” claim is illogical. He somehow manages to satisfy himself that free healthcare for all is noble, but free medicine isn’t. Free education is great, but only until you leave high school and then only for kids that meet his narrow definition of poor. Strangest of all is that he never criticises Labour led councils for not redressing these social injustices. Offered the opportunity to recover these monies by way of increasing Council tax; a method which would’ve hit those with higher valued properties most, these councils dragged their feet. 

[Bonbon19]

55 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Mcleans “middle class perks” claim is illogical. He somehow manages to satisfy himself that free healthcare for all is noble, but free medicine isn’t. Free education is great, but only until you leave high school and then only for kids that meet his narrow definition of poor. Strangest of all is that he never criticises Labour led councils for not redressing these social injustices. Offered the opportunity to recover these monies by way of increasing Council tax; a method which would’ve hit those with higher valued properties most, these councils dragged their feet. 

It’s my understanding that the Scottish govt has frozen all council tax rates for the past few years 

[gdevoy]

3 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

It’s my understanding that the Scottish govt has frozen all council tax rates for the past few years 

The Council Tax Freeze was modified into a cap of 3% in 2017.

[Zorro]

18 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

The Council Tax Freeze was modified into a cap of 3% in 2017.

Changed again in 2019