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KFC_Macca

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10 hours ago, historyman said:

I agree. They should be trying to find a way to finish the season not end it early. 

when they can play football again why don’t they finish this season and then play a short league campaign for next season eg play each other only twice?

We would all be raging if Killie were to go down with 8 games left. It’s not fair on whatever team it is - hearts, thistle or anyone else. 

How can they finish the season if Scottish clubs can't afford the facilities required to play behind closed doors ? 

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23 hours ago, Garvis said:

I keep hearing VOID the season, do people not relies it would finish Scottish football for over 50% - 60% of the clubs that are counting down the days to get their prize money never mind having to pay back fans season ticket money..    

But changing the rules in mid season is grossly unfair to certain clubs and could put them out of business.

Aye, it's a tricky one.

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34 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

But changing the rules in mid season is grossly unfair to certain clubs and could put them out of business.

Aye, it's a tricky one.

We were almost 80% of the way through the season. The fairest way would be to make the split as it stands, and work out the remaining fixtures from the points gained against the post-split teams in earlier games. 

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9 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

How can they finish the season if Scottish clubs can't afford the facilities required to play behind closed doors ? 

How can they start the season if they can't afford the facilities required to play behind closed doors?

When they are able play, whenever that is, they play the last 8 or so games, the cup semis and final from this season and then they start a new shorter season eg no league cup and perhaps only home and away in the league.

For once I'm with Sevco - they could give loans of the prize money based on current positions and then see where they finish in the end. And when are talking cash its worth remembering that many of the clubs will be getting a good deal less than Doncaster's annual salary

Edited by historyman
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4 minutes ago, historyman said:

How can they start the season if they can't afford the facilities required to play behind closed doors?

When they are able play, whenever that is, they play the last 8 or so games, the cup semis and final from this season and then they start a new shorter season eg no league cup and perhaps only home and away in the league.

For once I'm with Sevco - they could give loans of the prize money based on current positions and then see where they finish in the end. And when are talking cash its worth remembering that many of the clubs will be getting a good deal less than Doncaster's annual salary

No, that isn't going to work. If we are behind England in coming out of lockdown, training won't begin until July, fixtures at least two weeks later. Add eight league games and finishing off Cup games then we are into September before last season finishes. How are teams going to qualify for group stages of European competitions on that basis ? This season has gone, with the possible exception of the Scottish Cup. 

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1 hour ago, historyman said:

How can they start the season if they can't afford the facilities required to play behind closed doors?

When they are able play, whenever that is, they play the last 8 or so games, the cup semis and final from this season and then they start a new shorter season eg no league cup and perhaps only home and away in the league.

For once I'm with Sevco - they could give loans of the prize money based on current positions and then see where they finish in the end. And when are talking cash its worth remembering that many of the clubs will be getting a good deal less than Doncaster's annual salary

Then they finish lower but have already spent the money and can’t pay it back? 

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2 hours ago, Skora11 said:

Then they finish lower but have already spent the money and can’t pay it back? 

Not if the payment was for the lowest possible position they could finish in... I.e Celtic could only finish 1st or 2nd so they get paid for 2nd just now.... The Rangers could drop as low as 4th so they paid for that position. 

 

I think the payment that was made already was a little lower than the 12th place would get so there isn't much cash left to be paid to the lower teams anyway.

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11 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

No, that isn't going to work. If we are behind England in coming out of lockdown, training won't begin until July, fixtures at least two weeks later. Add eight league games and finishing off Cup games then we are into September before last season finishes. How are teams going to qualify for group stages of European competitions on that basis ? This season has gone, with the possible exception of the Scottish Cup. 

I don’t think European qualification should have any relevance at all when the SPFL reach a decision. Their situation is even more complicated than the domestic leagues and the future of their competitions is completely uncertain.
Who even knows what European competitions, if any, will be played next season and when they will begin? And what are they going to do with this year’s competitions? Is the intention to complete them or not? There are still plenty of games to be played in the CL and Europa League. 
In the whole of Europe there will be very few leagues that will be able to afford to hold matches behind closed doors - and that’s even if their government allows them to do that. The positive cases at clubs in rich leagues like Germany, Spain and England has already shown how problematic any return will be. Are all the smaller countries just going to call the leagues as they stand like Scotland is proposing so they can award the European places? 
Also, how can British clubs complete in Europe when any clubs from outside Ireland or France would have a 2 week quarantine when they arrive in the UK? 
I wouldn’t be surprised if there are no European competitions starting for quite some time so I don’t think that should be a key factor in deciding what the Scottish league do.  
My question is simple - when football returns in Scotland why can’t the clubs finish off last season before commencing a new league programme? What prevents them doing that? 
If Killie were in the same position as Hearts or Partick I think we would have a different view. I think it is totally wrong to relegate a team before the league programme has been completed. 

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Which squads will the clubs be able to play.  Will out of contract players have their contracts extended .  UNLIKELY.

Will loanee players have their contracts extended to allow the league to be finished.  Unlikely.

Finishing the season will only allow the large teams with big squads an even greater advantage.

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28 minutes ago, Charlies PaPa said:

Which squads will the clubs be able to play.  Will out of contract players have their contracts extended .  UNLIKELY.

Will loanee players have their contracts extended to allow the league to be finished.  Unlikely.

Finishing the season will only allow the large teams with big squads an even greater advantage.

Correct 

large number of our squad will not be back at RP when football returns...due to loans ended and contracts running out....we will have a very different line up from the last game for our next game .....also lot of players at other clubs already agreed contracts with rival clubs ...so trying to finish current season up to Xmas is a non starter .....added to by the new TV deal starting with a totally different company involved solely rather than the shared agreements in place for this season 

And then each club will have deals for new sponsors , strips etc agreed .....

Edited by Scouser2
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1 hour ago, historyman said:


In the whole of Europe there will be very few leagues that will be able to afford to hold matches behind closed doors - and that’s even if their government allows them to do that. The positive cases at clubs in rich leagues like Germany, Spain and England has already shown how problematic any return will be. 



My question is simple - when football returns in Scotland why can’t the clubs finish off last season before commencing a new league programme? What prevents them doing that? 
If Killie were in the same position as Hearts or Partick I think we would have a different view. I think it is totally wrong to relegate a team before the league programme has been completed. 

I think you answered your own question there, if we can't afford closed doors games when can we finish the league, October, November, December ? 

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30 minutes ago, Wrangodog said:

I think you answered your own question there, if we can't afford closed doors games when can we finish the league, October, November, December ? 

I don't understand your point here as that is no different to when we can start a new league.

Let's assume that we cannot play matches behind closed doors in Scotland as it is unaffordable because of the garbage TV deal we have and the precarious financial position of many clubs.

Lets assume that the restart of matches in Scotland with paying spectators isn't until October, November or December as you say or even into 2021 - why cant the matches resume with the remaining games of the 2019/20 season that was suspended and once these games have been completed then a new season starts? What would prevent this approach being taken?

1 hour ago, Charlies PaPa said:

Which squads will the clubs be able to play.  Will out of contract players have their contracts extended .  UNLIKELY.

Will loanee players have their contracts extended to allow the league to be finished.  Unlikely.

Finishing the season will only allow the large teams with big squads an even greater advantage.

All players contracts and loans will no doubt end on their scheduled date, probably sometime this month, unless the player is offered another contract and accepts it. 

Loads of players will be out of contract and will be on the lookout for new clubs just as they are every summer and clubs will put together new squads and bring in new players - just as they do every single summer and every single January. The only difference is that this time the new players contracts or loans will be for the remaining games of season 2019/20 and for the new season 2020/21.

So what if a club's squad is very different at the end of the season than it was at the start - that happens all the time. Just look at St Mirren last season for example.

Edited by historyman
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2 hours ago, historyman said:

I don’t think European qualification should have any relevance at all when the SPFL reach a decision.

How do think Ceptic can fund the quality players they have through-out their squad, SPFL prize money?  And  I believe *anger* cup run has saved them from going bust yet again. Whether we like it or not European football is vital to these clubs.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, historyman said:

So what if a club's squad is very different at the end of the season than it was at the start - that happens all the time.

So rich clubs that can keep/enhance their squads outwith the normal transfer windows of a league season are allowed an advantage over the likes of Hamilton?  Are you Anne Budge in disguise?

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6 minutes ago, historyman said:

I don't understand your point here as that is no different to when we can start a new league.

Let's assume that we cannot play matches behind closed doors in Scotland as it is unaffordable because of the garbage TV deal we have and the precarious financial position of many clubs.

Lets assume that the restart of matches in Scotland with paying spectators isn't until October, November or December as you say or even into 2021 - why cant the matches resume with the remaining games of the 2019/20 season that was suspended and once these games have been completed then a new season starts? What would prevent this approach being taken?

All players contracts and loans will no doubt end on their scheduled date, probably sometime this month, unless the player is offered another contract and accepts it. 

Loads of players will be out of contract and will be on the lookout for new clubs just as they are every summer and clubs will put together new squads and bring in new players - just as they do every single summer and every single January. The only difference is that this time the new players contracts or loans will be for the remaining games of season 2019/20 and for the new season 2020/21.

So what if a club's squad is very different at the end of the season than it was at the start - that happens all the time. Just look at St Mirren last season for example.

You don't understand my point ? We restart the season in October, November, or December, then play out the remaining eight games and presumably the Cup games. When does the new season start ? Meanwhile, the Championship can't start their season until they know which club is relegated, so they have no revenue until November, December, or January. This season is finished unless somebody subsidises closed doors games, or the money which the TV companies reclaim is greater than the cost of holding games behind closed doors. 

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Just now, MrTumnus said:

How do think Ceptic can fund the quality players they have through-out their squad, SPFL prize money?  And  I believe *anger* cup run has saved them from going bust yet again. Whether we like it or not European football is vital to these clubs.

 

 

The Rangers are trying to rip the SPFL to bits before it goes into administration, and by delaying the payments to the other clubs in hope that some of them suffer the same fate, in hope that under the circumstances they won't get docked points.

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15 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

No, that isn't going to work. If we are behind England in coming out of lockdown, training won't begin until July, fixtures at least two weeks later. Add eight league games and finishing off Cup games then we are into September before last season finishes. How are teams going to qualify for group stages of European competitions on that basis ? This season has gone, with the possible exception of the Scottish Cup. 

Who's to say they won't cancel European football next season entirely? Countries are imposing 14 day quarantine periods left right and centre.

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25 minutes ago, MrTumnus said:

So rich clubs that can keep/enhance their squads outwith the normal transfer windows of a league season are allowed an advantage over the likes of Hamilton?  Are you Anne Budge in disguise?

I am sure these rich clubs will fear losing players to clubs in the richer leagues who will actually be playing football .Can't see any of the better Scottish based players hanging around kicking there heels when there playing games in England or other countries .A few will be working there ticket or demanding to go on loan.

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I read that UEFA and the “big clubs association” (can’t remember what their actual name is) have already had discussions about holding an almost closed doors Euro comps next season which will exclude all but the biggest leagues entrants, as they think qualifying is highly unlikely to be able to take place. 
 

In Scotland those that want the season completed no matter when that is - and I was one who had this opinion until recently - have to explain how smaller Premiership clubs can possibly compete when the vast majority of their first team squads are out of contract/loans completed, and they have no income or prospect of paying customers to start rebuilding their squads. St Mirren, Accies, St J, Rossco, Killie all spring to mind without thinking too hard as being badly affected by this, and have a reliance on gate revenue as well as sponsorship money to operate. If Accies for example have only half a dozen players contracted beyond June and no real income to sign replacements, how can they complete remaining fixtures behind closed doors in a relegation battle with Hearts? Surely that is even more unfair than calling the season as it stands using a points per game basis? These smaller community clubs are basically in hibernation until they can play in front of a paying public again. 

Edited by casual observer
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1 hour ago, historyman said:

I don't understand your point here as that is no different to when we can start a new league.

Let's assume that we cannot play matches behind closed doors in Scotland as it is unaffordable because of the garbage TV deal we have and the precarious financial position of many clubs.

Lets assume that the restart of matches in Scotland with paying spectators isn't until October, November or December as you say or even into 2021 - why cant the matches resume with the remaining games of the 2019/20 season that was suspended and once these games have been completed then a new season starts? What would prevent this approach being taken?

All players contracts and loans will no doubt end on their scheduled date, probably sometime this month, unless the player is offered another contract and accepts it. 

Loads of players will be out of contract and will be on the lookout for new clubs just as they are every summer and clubs will put together new squads and bring in new players - just as they do every single summer and every single January. The only difference is that this time the new players contracts or loans will be for the remaining games of season 2019/20 and for the new season 2020/21.

So what if a club's squad is very different at the end of the season than it was at the start - that happens all the time. Just look at St Mirren last season for example.

“Hello Mr player, would you like an eight game contract so we can try and save our season? What’s that, you’d like a bit more security? Sorry we can’t give you longer because we’re not sure which league we’ll be in. How about we press the gamble button and pay you more than our usual wage structure? Don’t worry that you’re not match fit because you’ve not played for a while. Don’t worry that you’re more likely to pick up an injury because of this lay-off. We’re sure it will all work out”. - What could possibly go wrong?

Edited by Zorro
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2 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

You don't understand my point ? We restart the season in October, November, or December, then play out the remaining eight games and presumably the Cup games. When does the new season start ? Meanwhile, the Championship can't start their season until they know which club is relegated, so they have no revenue until November, December, or January. This season is finished unless somebody subsidises closed doors games, or the money which the TV companies reclaim is greater than the cost of holding games behind closed doors. 

If they hadn’t forced this through without proper discussion then all the other leagues in Scotland would have had to be completed as well - including play offs.

Does no one else think the whole Dundee situation stinks to high heaven? 

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53 minutes ago, Zorro said:

“Hello Mr player, would you like an eight game contract so we can try and save our season? What’s that, you’d like a bit more security? Sorry we can’t give you longer because we’re not sure which league we’ll be in. How about we press the gamble button and pay you more than our usual wage structure? Don’t worry that you’re not match fit because you’ve not played for a while. Don’t worry that you’re more likely to pick up an injury because of this lay-off. We’re sure it will all work out”. - What could possibly go wrong?

I said a new contract for the remaining games AND the new season. I thought most people would have worked that bit out correctly. 

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2 hours ago, MrTumnus said:

So rich clubs that can keep/enhance their squads outwith the normal transfer windows of a league season are allowed an advantage over the likes of Hamilton?  Are you Anne Budge in disguise?

You could say that happens every January. Hearts just happened to muck it up big team this year. 
In defence of Anne Budge and Hearts I don’t think it is at all fair that a club gets relegated after 30 games of a 38 game season. 
Would you be ok with it if it was us? I wouldn’t. I would be fuming at the unfairness of it all. 

Edited by historyman
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