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1 hour ago, Loudoun Killie said:

Motherwells population is about a third less than Kilmarnock, so theoretically we should have a much larger support on that basis, which backs up M07s point to a degree.

That is the old trick of not including Wishaw as part of Motherwell. Their joint population is 59,000 while Killie's is 46,350.

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1 hour ago, historyman said:

The facts provided are over simplistic and there is no automatic correlation between them. For years the east end of Glasgow as been one of the poorest places in Britain yet attendances at football matches are huge.
or if you want an example closer to home Ayr will be a wealthier town than Kilmarnock but get smaller attendances at football matches. Same for Inverness I would imagine. 

The east end of Glasgow is where Celtic are based but their support doesn't just come from there, easily seen if you are driving back from an away Killie game and hundreds of supporters buses are streaming out of Glasgow in the opposite direction. Proximity to Glasgow is a factor as it is for other clubs in west/central Scotland. The team that your parents support is also a factor, and when so many Scottish football fans have historically supported the big two clubs it is going to take success of some sort to get young fans attracted to our club. I like Rugby Park but it is easier to get crowd involvement in a ground more suited to our average attendance. Credit to the Trust they are doing their level best to improve fan involvement and attendances, but we are facing a huge challenge unless a vaccine is found for Covid-19. 

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1 hour ago, historyman said:

The facts provided are over simplistic and there is no automatic correlation between them. For years the east end of Glasgow as been one of the poorest places in Britain yet attendances at football matches are huge.
or if you want an example closer to home Ayr will be a wealthier town than Kilmarnock but get smaller attendances at football matches. Same for Inverness I would imagine. 

The facts provided were absolutely simplistic, given he's completely incapable of understanding nuance there's not really a lot of point examining beyond the surface level.  He made a statement about the economic conditions in Motherwell being similar to Kilmarnock - they're not.  Those facts, while simplistic and, as you say, absolutely do not paint anywhere like a full picture of the drivers and barriers to attendence, illustrate the lack of econominc similarity.

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Just now, Wrangodog said:

The east end of Glasgow is where Celtic are based but their support doesn't just come from there, easily seen if you are driving back from an away Killie game and hundreds of supporters buses are streaming out of Glasgow in the opposite direction. Proximity to Glasgow is a factor as it is for other clubs in west/central Scotland. The team that your parents support is also a factor, and when so many Scottish football fans have historically supported the big two clubs it is going to take success of some sort to get young fans attracted to our club. I like Rugby Park but it is easier to get crowd involvement in a ground more suited to our average attendance. Credit to the Trust they are doing their level best to improve fan involvement and attendances, but we are facing a huge challenge unless a vaccine is found for Covid-19. 

Historyman's point is well made, as in yours - there are a hell of a lot of factors involved.  McLean's supposition where he constantly and gleefully espouses that Kilmarnock fans just care less is meaningless nonsense though.

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Bitten the bullet as well today with buying both my kids season tickets that cost next to nothing last year.. The lack of control over seats that I have had for 20 odd years and 12 years for kids was stressing me out so hopefully good for club and money doesn’t  just go on streaming fees. Feeling more relaxed tonight !!!

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2 hours ago, KillkieBoab said:

That is the old trick of not including Wishaw as part of Motherwell. Their joint population is 59,000 while Killie's is 46,350.

And that is the old trick of not including our catchment area which takes you over 70K........

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2 hours ago, Lorielus said:

Historyman's point is well made, as in yours - there are a hell of a lot of factors involved.  McLean's supposition where he constantly and gleefully espouses that Kilmarnock fans just care less is meaningless nonsense though.

Not meaningless nonsense at all, I take it as a sign of someone with ambition.....which I think most of us have for our club......no where does he say or infer that we ‘just care less‘. Stop making things up......

Edited by Loudoun Killie

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12 minutes ago, Loudoun Killie said:

Not meaningless nonsense at all, I take it as a sign of someone with ambition.....which I think most of us have for our club......no where does he say or infer that we ‘just care less‘. Stop making things up......

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We really need to be showing the same loyalty as other clubs fans are

Needless to say, I'm not going to trawl through his post history, but here's an example from this very thread.

 

Oh, and:

Quote

It’s amazing the loyalty of most of these fans with their season ticket purchases and travel, yet we can only get a relatively small amount to go locally unless it’s a big game. 

 

Edited by Lorielus

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16 hours ago, Lorielus said:

Spoken like a true moron - reality doesn't care about your anecdote of the six folk you know.

If you go back far enough you’ll find surveys that confirm the wide spread nature of our support. I think most people would disagree with your analysis, though, that Lanarkshire is Silicon Valley compared with Ayrshire. As other posters say, we need to find ways to increase sales and not keep looking for reasons why we can’t do it. 

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16 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

The east end of Glasgow is where Celtic are based but their support doesn't just come from there, easily seen if you are driving back from an away Killie game and hundreds of supporters buses are streaming out of Glasgow in the opposite direction. Proximity to Glasgow is a factor as it is for other clubs in west/central Scotland. The team that your parents support is also a factor, and when so many Scottish football fans have historically supported the big two clubs it is going to take success of some sort to get young fans attracted to our club. I like Rugby Park but it is easier to get crowd involvement in a ground more suited to our average attendance. Credit to the Trust they are doing their level best to improve fan involvement and attendances, but we are facing a huge challenge unless a vaccine is found for Covid-19. 

And our support doesn’t just come from Kilmarnock. Of all the guys I know who have season tickets none live in Kilmarnock. As you say there are a multitude of reasons for supporting a football club so linking the level of attendance to the economic conditions of the town or city doesn’t explain it. 
We have a very small core support which continues to decline and that should be a worry for the club. It also seems that we have not really retained any of the fans that we picked up during our successes under SC. 

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13 minutes ago, historyman said:

It also seems that we have not really retained any of the fans that we picked up during our successes under SC. 

 That really isn't a surprise it was only eighteen months, the first half of which was recovering from the McCulloch shambles. The success that SSC had was almost entirely undone by last season's fiasco on and off the park. 

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16 minutes ago, Wrangodog said:

 That really isn't a surprise it was only eighteen months, the first half of which was recovering from the McCulloch shambles. The success that SSC had was almost entirely undone by last season's fiasco on and off the park. 

The size of the ground continues to be a problem as it makes a bad situation look far worse. Watching the BBC Alba programme the other night, the stacks of empty seats are not attractive. I think we need a radical look at how this can be alleviated and the ground better utilised, but I’ve been saying that for years. Last season’s loss to Connah’s Quay and the summer shambles did cause us to lose momentum and the dreadful transfer windows haven’t helped. 

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17 hours ago, KillkieBoab said:

That is the old trick of not including Wishaw as part of Motherwell. Their joint population is 59,000 while Killie's is 46,350.

We might as well add Irvine then. 

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34 minutes ago, Wrangodog said:

 That really isn't a surprise it was only eighteen months, the first half of which was recovering from the McCulloch shambles. The success that SSC had was almost entirely undone by last season's fiasco on and off the park. 

Whether it was 18 months or 3 years I don’t think makes a difference. We lost any gains we made. As McLean says the shambolic decisions made since last summer would have helped to lose any recent converts. 
there was a good crowd and a good atmosphere at the start of the CQ game and we managed to blow it in spectacular fashion. 

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Theres a huge gap in our support where people have gotten older and stopped going through disinterest, there was an upturn in attendance because we were doing well under ssc- its the same folk that only go to the games when we play Ayr in the cup for lack of a better term "glory hunters". I'm 22 and can now say none of the boys that used to have season tickets along with myself when we were younger have continued to take one up. My dad and I still go to the games and im looking to get myself a season ticket when things are clearer financially. I don't think there's much more you can do for what's happened to the majority of folk my age group, I think its more important we get the younger age groups hooked and better educate them what it means to be a fan.

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1 hour ago, Mclean07 said:

If you go back far enough you’ll find surveys that confirm the wide spread nature of our support.

Feel free to link it and the comparative to Motherwell's then, it would form the first part of actual reasoned argument you'd made yet.

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I think most people would disagree with your analysis, though, that Lanarkshire is Silicon Valley compared with Ayrshire.

Not what I said, and, once again, what you think and what people agree and disagree with does not change reality.

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As other posters say, we need to find ways to increase sales and not keep looking for reasons why we can’t do it. 

Completely agree we need to find ways to increase sales.   However, I see where you're misunderstanding the premise of the argument here - the argument isn't why we can't increase sales, it's why efforts to do so aren't increasing sales.  Examining the barriers and drivers of attendance is keys in doing that.

Moaning that our fans are less loyal than Motherwell fans while dismissing all other factors including match day performance and economic drivers does absolutely nothing to assist with that and is just small-minded nonsense.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lorielus said:

Feel free to link it .....

It would have been done under the previous version if this site. 

 

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Just now, skygod said:

It would have been done under the previous version if this site. 

 

Ah ok, so it was just a site survey of 200/300 users (I've no idea how many unique visitors the site gets)?

Edited by Lorielus

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4 minutes ago, Lorielus said:

Ah ok, so it was just a site survey of 200/300 users (I've no idea how many unique visitors the site gets)?

No idea, but there’s currently 3,127 members. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Lorielus said:

Ah ok, so it was just a site survey of 200/300 users (I've no idea how many unique visitors the site gets)?

The site as a whole? 50k per month circa 02/03.

Killiefc.com had its one millionth unique daily front page "hit" in March 2005, second millionth on October 20th 2006 and the third millionth hit on January 13th 2008.

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2 minutes ago, skygod said:

No idea, but there’s currently 3,127 members. 

 

As we are no longer closed off, we have loads of guest readers too. Not sure if they can post, but, they can certainly report posts.

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Just now, CB said:

The site as a whole? 50k per month circa 02/03.

Killiefc.com had its one millionth unique daily front page "hit" in March 2005, second millionth on October 20th 2006 and the third millionth hit on January 13th 2008.

50k unique visitors?

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3 minutes ago, Lorielus said:

50k unique visitors?

It says 'hits'

Quote

Surprisingly after leaving the country-wide network the viewing figures actually increased and killiefc.com was recording circa 45-50,000 'hits' monthly during the playing season, despite losing the traffic of rival fans. The now famous/infamous (delete as appropriate) "Killie Kickback" forums are as popular as ever despite the advent of social media such as Facebook and Twitter...although we did bow to convention and you can find us there as well.

https://killiefc.com/home/about-us

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2 hours ago, historyman said:

And our support doesn’t just come from Kilmarnock. Of all the guys I know who have season tickets none live in Kilmarnock. As you say there are a multitude of reasons for supporting a football club so linking the level of attendance to the economic conditions of the town or city doesn’t explain it. 
We have a very small core support which continues to decline and that should be a worry for the club. It also seems that we have not really retained any of the fans that we picked up during our successes under SC. 

Glory hunters 

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