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piffer

Alex Dyer Megathread™

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1 hour ago, mitch14 said:

St Mirren was one of the worst Killie performances I've ever seen. But it's very selective to focus on that, particularly as it was before we got players in, particularly Kabamba, and without SoD, Power and Findlay. 

Is February not a better judge? Beat Rangers, credibile draw at Pittodrie, tore Hearts to shreds (it was only tihjt because of Branescu losing the head) and beating County three one at home.

January is a fair point, but in still unclear on whose fault it was and lean towards Fowler and the fact that the setup still wasn't up to scratch.

Kabamba was a brilliant signing. Going by the interviews afterwards, Dyer would have been of the impression on the afternoon of the window closing that Tshbola was done and dusted, Roland Aaron's was looking likely and a few other targets he'd agreed with Fowler were likely too. 

Depending on what the story is with the players that he turned down (I still get the impression that was essentially saying I'd rather play Connell than a risky Ndjoli type) it's difficult to know how much to criticise Dyer. 

I think there was enough to show he was a competent boss (ie in the way any number of managers could come in and be), but it's just a question of whether he's anything more than that. 

Dyer knocked several players that Fowler had put forward as well.... can't dump all the blame on JF.

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6 minutes ago, chubbs said:

Dyer knocked several players that Fowler had put forward as well.... can't dump all the blame on JF.

Surely that depends on what the calibre of player on offer was.

I don't think you can form an opinion of either Dyer or Fowler over this as the fact are not known.

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18 hours ago, rb_506 said:

Not like Killie fans to slaughter someone before they've had a fair crack of the whip eh? The way the season ended didn't give Dyer a chance to pull things together and he was trying to rescue the season with a squad that had all but fallen to pieces. Maybe with some time and some of his own signings (and some support, he's the Killie manager, some support wouldn't go amiss) we will see a far better team and some more consistency. He proved that he was capable of results and was let down a few times by individual errors, and we were all already in a huff with the club before he was given a chance at all. This season coming is going to be unprecedented as well and many clubs will struggle on all sorts of levels, is it the time to bring in another unknown quantity or should we try and find some stability because we might well have to reply on some of the youth prospects the way things are going, we're quibbling about signings and we will be lucky to come out the other side of this with a club. The financial effect of this virus is being underplayed by many so that there is no panic, but we do not have the cash reserves to be splashing out a complete overhaul. I'll be honest and admit I wouldn't say no to Gary Holt if there were no financial penalties, he knows the club, knows the fans, has experience at various levels and sometimes the right man in the right job can make all the difference; but what happened last season is not going to be repeated and we'll probably just have to accept that and get behind the club and everyone there that remains.

We were 5th when Alessio left, and Dyer seen us drop more places. Alessio sacking had nothing to do with performances, but the fact that certain members of the squad didn't fancy him, one of which has since decided to leave us and go to the papers and say he made his mind up months ago about it. I don't dislike Dyer by any means, but the handling of things since Clarke left has been an utter shambles

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34 minutes ago, chubbs said:

Dyer knocked several players that Fowler had put forward as well.... can't dump all the blame on JF.

This comes up so often. Am I right in remembering this was one line from Fowler in an interview? 

Do any of our well connected posters know what the truth of this is? 

From memory, Fowler said there were players offered to us later in the day that Dyer didn't think were the right fit. My understanding is that players being offered up in that way is often a red flag for clubs/players trying to offload someone rotten and you have to be quite careful. 

Just logically though - I'd be astounded if those were players who were anything other than loans of the "s**t English premiership youth setup" variety or gambles in terms of injury etc. 

Do fans really think that Fowler said "we can get Greg Stewart on loan" and Dyer said "nah". Realise that's a daft example, but I just find it really difficult to belive, both logically and from what's been said, that's there's much significance at all behind that comment. 

Would be really interested if others know more. 

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14 minutes ago, bute-killiefan said:

I hope that if we do interview candidates, the first question is 'How much running will you do at training?'

Second question, would you be able to 

remove hands from pockets?

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28 minutes ago, muza1962 said:

Second question, would you be able to 

remove hands from pockets?

That is a challenge I agree. Alan Johnston, Gary Locke, Lee McCulloch and even Jimmy Calderwood playing with his f**king change...none of them managed it.

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45 minutes ago, mitch14 said:

This comes up so often. Am I right in remembering this was one line from Fowler in an interview? 

Do any of our well connected posters know what the truth of this is? 

From memory, Fowler said there were players offered to us later in the day that Dyer didn't think were the right fit. My understanding is that players being offered up in that way is often a red flag for clubs/players trying to offload someone rotten and you have to be quite careful. 

Just logically though - I'd be astounded if those were players who were anything other than loans of the "s**t English premiership youth setup" variety or gambles in terms of injury etc. 

Do fans really think that Fowler said "we can get Greg Stewart on loan" and Dyer said "nah". Realise that's a daft example, but I just find it really difficult to belive, both logically and from what's been said, that's there's much significance at all behind that comment. 

Would be really interested if others know more. 

Yes but I think the main point is that we shouldn’t have been in the position of waiting around to see what players got offered to us late in the day. 
We should have had our business done earlier in the window. Plenty of other clubs managed to do that, St Mirren being one example. 
We weren’t in a position to gamble given how weak the squad was in some areas. Thank god we got Kabamba in or it would have been a total failure. 

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1 hour ago, mitch14 said:

This comes up so often. Am I right in remembering this was one line from Fowler in an interview? 

Do any of our well connected posters know what the truth of this is? 

From memory, Fowler said there were players offered to us later in the day that Dyer didn't think were the right fit. My understanding is that players being offered up in that way is often a red flag for clubs/players trying to offload someone rotten and you have to be quite careful. 

Just logically though - I'd be astounded if those were players who were anything other than loans of the "s**t English premiership youth setup" variety or gambles in terms of injury etc. 

Do fans really think that Fowler said "we can get Greg Stewart on loan" and Dyer said "nah". Realise that's a daft example, but I just find it really difficult to belive, both logically and from what's been said, that's there's much significance at all behind that comment. 

Would be really interested if others know more. 

Fair points. I am just a bit concerned re the communication lines between Fowler and Dyer which left us either in the last chance saloon with only dross on offer, as you suggest, or if Fowler had done his research and identified potentially decent players which Dyer knocked back.
 

Bad comms seem to be a bit of a theme at Killie at all levels...

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20 hours ago, Secret Squirrel said:

Not had a fair crack at the whip you must be joking the man has had 15 games and a transfer window to find his feet.

A whole 15 games? Just imagine that's what Alex Ferguson had at Man Utd and they decided to bin him. 15 games, let that sink in.

Seriously, who the hell do we think we are that we can write people off after 15 games? The sense of entitlement is astonishing, some fans are expecting miracles and think we are in the upper echelons of football, but we're not. No one is saying we should settle for just anything but a bit of realism wouldn't go wrong.

It's not wonder our turnover in managers has reached ridiculous proportions when our fan base are living in cloud cuckoo land.

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Word is Fowler had Rolando Aarons lined up but AD knocked him back. He looked the part from what I saw at Motherwell.

If that is indicative of AD then it's a no from me, we were light on numbers and he knocked back a quality player.

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7 minutes ago, Wee_Eck1979 said:

Word is Fowler had Rolando Aarons lined up but AD knocked him back. He looked the part from what I saw at Motherwell.

If that is indicative of AD then it's a no from me, we were light on numbers and he knocked back a quality player.

Did Fowler not say we weren't in for him in the end? I'm sure it was either that or the player didn't fancy the pitch with his injury record? 

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9 minutes ago, Wee_Eck1979 said:

Word is Fowler had Rolando Aarons lined up but AD knocked him back. He looked the part from what I saw at Motherwell.

If that is indicative of AD then it's a no from me, we were light on numbers and he knocked back a quality player.

I thought it was because he was reported to be carrying an injury?

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3 hours ago, mitch14 said:

This comes up so often. Am I right in remembering this was one line from Fowler in an interview? 

Both Fowler and Dyer spoke about it at the AGM and Fowler mentioned it again at the Trust event. Targets were taken to Dyer and he chose not to go with them for a variety of reasons. I don’t recall timescales being mentioned of when these targets were taken to the manager. He himself mentioned that he knocked some back because he didn’t think they’d fit the group and not on playing ability. Dyer also stated about a week before the window shut he was prepared to go with what he had coupled with his earlier get one or two in. That may suggest he wasn’t 100% how to solve the problems in our squad. 

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1 minute ago, piffer said:

Both Fowler and Dyer spoke about it at the AGM and Fowler mentioned it again at the Trust event. Targets were taken to Dyer and he chose not to go with them for a variety of reasons. I don’t recall timescales being mentioned of when these targets were taken to the manager. He himself mentioned that he knocked some back because he didn’t think they’d fit the group and not on playing ability. Dyer also stated about a week before the window shut he was prepared to go with what he had coupled with his earlier get one or two in. That may suggest he wasn’t 100% how to solve the problems in our squad. 

Thank you - that's really useful. 

More concerning than I'd imagined. Still convinced that a couple of McAleney esqur players would have made a big difference in those tighter games we lost v Hibs/St Johnstone. Would be really interesting to see who got knocked back... 

I suppose the hope is that Dyer has learned what is needed and Fowler has learned the necessary to get deals over the line. 

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15 hours ago, rb_506 said:

It's not wonder our turnover in managers has reached ridiculous proportions when our fan base are living in cloud cuckoo land.

It's not the fans who appoint and dismiss the managers.

Alessio - Who the **** knows why?
Clarke - Left for new position (Scotland)
McCulloch - Mutual consent when bottom of the table
Clark - Left for new position (Bury)
Locke - Resigned when second bottom
Johnston - Dismissed when 8th in table
Shiels - Dismissed after finishing 9th
Paateleinen - Left for new position (Finland)

But it's the fans' fault that our turnover in managers is ridiculous!

 

Edited by skygod

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11 minutes ago, mitch14 said:

Thank you - that's really useful. 

More concerning than I'd imagined. Still convinced that a couple of McAleney esqur players would have made a big difference in those tighter games we lost v Hibs/St Johnstone. Would be really interesting to see who got knocked back... 

I suppose the hope is that Dyer has learned what is needed and Fowler has learned the necessary to get deals over the line. 

Sounded as if we had put a lot of hope into Tshibola and he changed his mind at the last kick. That was the only name really mentioned. Fowler went into a bit more about Aaron’s at the trust event but I can’t remember the exact details. 

Dyer did enough with Kabamba's addition to get a bit more balance to the starting lineup and come up with a more obvious plan A. Plans B and C were not addressed as the lack of options from the bench or for rotation shows. 

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12 minutes ago, piffer said:

Sounded as if we had put a lot of hope into Tshibola and he changed his mind at the last kick. That was the only name really mentioned. Fowler went into a bit more about Aaron’s at the trust event but I can’t remember the exact details. 

Dyer did enough with Kabamba's addition to get a bit more balance to the starting lineup and come up with a more obvious plan A. Plans B and C were not addressed as the lack of options from the bench or for rotation shows. 

I did wonder at the time if Dyer was trying something very deliberate with the mentality in terms of saying that we had enough. Almost in the same way that Clarke rarely made subs as if to show how much faith he had in those on the pitch? Logic to it but naive perhaps. 

Bunn is very frustrating. An even half functioning player in that position might have given us a good outball in games and offered something different... 

It's signings like Jakubiak at St Mirren that really frustrated me - guys that were easy to get and made a difference straight away. 

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2 hours ago, piffer said:

Both Fowler and Dyer spoke about it at the AGM and Fowler mentioned it again at the Trust event. Targets were taken to Dyer and he chose not to go with them for a variety of reasons. I don’t recall timescales being mentioned of when these targets were taken to the manager. He himself mentioned that he knocked some back because he didn’t think they’d fit the group and not on playing ability. Dyer also stated about a week before the window shut he was prepared to go with what he had coupled with his earlier get one or two in. That may suggest he wasn’t 100% how to solve the problems in our squad. 

“He wouldn’t fit into the group”. That concerns me given the anecdotal evidence around senior players being behind the dismissal of Alessio. As a manager, I recognise the need to make sure that new guys fit in, but that is partly making sure they are the right kind of person and have the right skills for the job, partly making sure that the existing team are not stuck in their ways and open to new blood and partly managing upwards so that when I decide who is best for the job, I get senior management buy in. OK, if they were clearly wrong ‘uns, good decision to avoid them, but otherwise, a good manager backed by his board should be able to make it work. Billy Bowie proclaimed Alessio as the best manager in the league and should therefore have backed him to the hilt in the face of stroppy players in il he proved himself unworthy of the job.

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Dyer seems to put a lot of stock in attributes other than footballing ability. When Bunn signed he was described as a wonderful human being. When Broadfoot returned he spoke at length about having someone in the dressing room he could trust. He also mentioned he had spoken to numerous people who played with or worked with Kabamba to find out what kind of guy he was. Other managers may do the same but he is certainly more vocal on those aspects than a lot of them.

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Also in Kabama's interview that was headlined as an insight into what made Dyer standout as a manager it was that "he's a great guy" not that the training is brilliant or anything like that

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I know from personal experiance that being a nice guy , good guy one of the boys   etc , eventually does not cut it a managrial level in any field

better to be firm , fair and keep detached a bit like SC appeared to be.

 

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