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gdevoy

Can anybody tell me what Labour stands for?

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35 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

Andrew Wilson, chosen to head the SNP Growth Commision has stated that Alex Salmond's claim that oil revenues were a bonus was a lie. They were integral to the success of an independent Scotland. You don't need the BBC to twist the truth, you're ex leader did it all on his own. Other people got oil predictions wrong as well. Only difference is, they weren't gambling ordinary people's future security on them. 

Interested in this, do you have a link, can't find it

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2 hours ago, Mcilroy56 said:

Interested in this, do you have a link, can't find it

The BBC were reporting so yesterday on the radio.

But he (Wilson) didn't claim Salmond was "lying" as McLean suggests.

Wilson said the 2014 white paper was wrong to use North Sea oil as anything other than "a bonus" to the economy.

I'd tend to agree with him, as most countries don't need oil to viable as independent nations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39178324

 

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1 hour ago, RAG said:

The BBC were reporting so yesterday on the radio.

But he (Wilson) didn't claim Salmond was "lying" as McLean suggests.

Wilson said the 2014 white paper was wrong to use North Sea oil as anything other than "a bonus" to the economy.

I'd tend to agree with him, as most countries don't need oil to viable as independent nations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39178324

 

Yeah thanks saw that as well after a bit of digging around. I did think the same message had been relayed by Nicola Sturgeon 2 years ago, so not really new news.

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1 hour ago, Mcilroy56 said:

Yeah thanks saw that as well after a bit of digging around. I did think the same message had been relayed by Nicola Sturgeon 2 years ago, so not really new news.

It's the crux of recent unionist argument against independence in the UK media recently.

Obviously without the oil, the economy of Scotland is nothing more than a basket case.

Out-with London, Scotland performs top out UK regions - clearly the English economy, outside London is even more of a basket case.

As oils a finite resource and Norway have done well out their share, how did Westminster so terribly manage such a big "bonus" over the last 40 years?

Edited by RAG
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12 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

Andrew Wilson, chosen to head the SNP Growth Commision has stated that Alex Salmond's claim that oil revenues were a bonus was a lie. They were integral to the success of an independent Scotland. You don't need the BBC to twist the truth, you're ex leader did it all on his own. Other people got oil predictions wrong as well. Only difference is, they weren't gambling ordinary people's future security on them. 

What has this got to do with what Labour stands for?

You don't usually believe anything that comes from an SNP member... have you chosen to relay this, and twist it a wee bit, because it fits your agenda?

Sad!

You can climb back into your box now.

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Sad! Appropriate Trump talk from a Party that doesn't broker criticism, internal and external. Apparently your not really Scottish if you don't agree with everything they say. I agree, oil should be a bonus, but when you've got the biggest deficit in Europe without it, it's kind of essential. Outwith London the rest of England is a basket case? Err, maybe, but the rest of England isn't seeking independence from London. Every modern nation is reliant on large conurbations to power their economy. I genuinely want another referendum as soon as possible as Scotland is suffering badly while the SNP run an administration based on grievance rather than competence. We need a decision one way or another. As a political anorak, I'll be very interested how the SNP present their economic case given the situation has worsened since the last time. If they win, I'll take my hat off to them. My guess is, they will lose by a slightly bigger margin, Sturgeon will have to resign, and peak SNP will have passed.

Anyway, I'll try to get back in my box now and not offend anyone with something as unwelcome as a different opinion.

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Before you go back in your box McLean, can you tell me why having the biggest deficit in Europe, is a reason for staying in the Union which created it? The uk has had a few hundred years to sort this problem. If they had any inclination to fix it, surely they would have by now? There are only a few possible conclusions; they're incompetent, they have no wish to fix it or the deficit isn't anywhere near as bad as they'd have us believe. 

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23 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Before you go back in your box McLean, can you tell me why having the biggest deficit in Europe, is a reason for staying in the Union which created it? The uk has had a few hundred years to sort this problem. If they had any inclination to fix it, surely they would have by now? There are only a few possible conclusions; they're incompetent, they have no wish to fix it or the deficit isn't anywhere near as bad as they'd have us believe. 

I dunno about historic deficit levels, but without a deficit there's no debt.

As you can see from the graph bellow, public debts a modern problem, more modern than one may think.

Public debt was I believe "invented" to prolong the first world war from the 6 months that was affordable, to years of mass slaughter.

However, most of the UK debt has been accrued at the very time we struck and were extracting oil , having an additional "bonus" in our economy, yet accruing debt for future generations to pay?

Mass mismanagement on a grand scale.

debt-1900-2011.png

 

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3 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

I agree, oil should be a bonus, but when you've got the biggest deficit in Europe without it, it's kind of essential.

OK mate you are VERY VERY hard of understanding on this, and continue to spout the biggest load of unionist s**t ever.  So here goes for the last time:

To have Debt you MUST be able to spend more than you have. - Agreed?

The Scottish Government has NO borrowing powers, and LEGALLY must balance their budget allocation which comes from a partial refund of the scottish tax receipts (see note 1), Therefore LEGALLY Scotland cannot have a deficit.

Where I believe you are being wholly disingenuous if not downright lying, is in trying to use the Whitehall portion of GERS, where money is attributed to Scotland by the UK government, but not necessarily spent in Scotland and totally outwith the control of the Scottish government as evidence that we are a basket case.  Your entire premise of the argument is that we are unable to manage our country because the bit we don't have control over is used to try and show we canny manage!

Utterly f**king bonkers - Christ even you must see this!

 

Note 1: (Scottish tax receipts do NOT include goods leaving from an English port, but do include a tax on profits from wholly Scottish entities, neither do they include tax paid at a company's registered address elsewhere in rUK but taken from trading receipts in Scotland - so your supermarkets, etc.  I think we agree that this is a considerable amount).

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Still wondering what the SNP guy said has got to do with what Labour stands for... are they a credible alternative? After a Tory budget, Owen's Myth is on the tranny bashing his OWN party!!!

Or don't you want to climb out your box to talk about them?

Or just link us to @keverage and save time.

Edited by Scooter
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Your last point is widely ridiculed and even SNP ministers don't claim it. I showed you recently answers published by your own government that denied it. Scotland has a 9 Billion a year shortfall currently covered directly by the rest of the UK. Now when the oil price is higher we may manage to help them out. That's how it works and why it works. 

We would have to take with us a share of the UK debt since its been built up by the whole of the UK including us. Even if we renaged on that and left the burden on the ordinary people of the rest of the UK, we'd soon build up our own given the size of our deficit. Of course the EU would also demand a massive austerity programme as we are currently worse off than Greece. 

The denial continues and the twisted logic is worthy of Trump, despite no serious economist or the SNP leadership denying our deficit problem. 

Bring on the referendum. I actually sympathise with serious members of the SNP putting forward a credible plan to the electorate when the have to deal with fantasists like yourself. It actually harms your case. 

No more replies from me. I've said my piece and I received the same crazed, deluded relies as ever.

PS Teachers dealing one to one with kids who need special help are being pulled into the classroom to cover the shambles that is Scottish education. The kids are being left stranded after months of painstaking work with them and seeing improvement. Direct from a teacher it happened to his very week, along with other colleagues.  All because the SNP after ten years haven't had the basic competence to plan teacher numbers. SNP council, SNP government. This is real life on the ground in SNP Scotland. But hey, don't worry folks, after ten years it's the FM's " top priority ".

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8 minutes ago, Scooter said:

Still wondering what the SNP guy said has got to do with what Labour stands for... are they a credible alternative? After a Tory budget, Owen's Myth is on the tranny bashing his OWN party!!!

Or don't you want to climb out your box to talk about them?

Or just link us to @keverage and save time.

You would all learn an awful lot if you did.

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Still toiling to see how the SNP being fixated with independence at any cost helps me see what Labour stands for.

OK the SNP have got issues but at least they know what they stand for. And people vote for them. Quite a few at the last General election.

The problem I have got is if I don't share the SNP's fixation with independence as the way the truth and the light, what do I do?

Vote for a party which sort of stands for federalism but clearly Corbyn doesn't? Vote for a party that tried to support remain whan their leader is a good old fashioned British Imperialist?

Vote for a party that cant hold a seat in a by election despite 8 years of cuts to services, education and the NHS?

Vote for a party that wants someone with plenty of belief in socialism but zero street credibility as leader?

I am just saying it the SNP go under it's Tory Britain from here to eternity, private health care and education and American labour laws in order to secure Trump trade deals. 

So whether you agree with Wee Nicola or not you better hope and pry she carries the day because if not we are all royally screwed. 

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9 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

it's Tory Britain from here to eternity

Nothing is for ever.

Very few things in politics are for more than a few years. Give it five years and things could be very different.

Could be different for the worse, mind you....

 

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7 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

Your last point is widely ridiculed and even SNP ministers don't claim it. I showed you recently answers published by your own government that denied it. Scotland has a 9 Billion a year shortfall currently covered directly by the rest of the UK. Now when the oil price is higher we may manage to help them out. That's how it works and why it works. 

We would have to take with us a share of the UK debt since its been built up by the whole of the UK including us. Even if we renaged on that and left the burden on the ordinary people of the rest of the UK, we'd soon build up our own given the size of our deficit. Of course the EU would also demand a massive austerity programme as we are currently worse off than Greece. 

The denial continues and the twisted logic is worthy of Trump, despite no serious economist or the SNP leadership denying our deficit problem. 

Bring on the referendum. I actually sympathise with serious members of the SNP putting forward a credible plan to the electorate when the have to deal with fantasists like yourself. It actually harms your case. 

No more replies from me. I've said my piece and I received the same crazed, deluded relies as ever.

PS Teachers dealing one to one with kids who need special help are being pulled into the classroom to cover the shambles that is Scottish education. The kids are being left stranded after months of painstaking work with them and seeing improvement. Direct from a teacher it happened to his very week, along with other colleagues.  All because the SNP after ten years haven't had the basic competence to plan teacher numbers. SNP council, SNP government. This is real life on the ground in SNP Scotland. But hey, don't worry folks, after ten years it's the FM's " top priority ".

You must have an alt account as its only ever one loke you get.  But again you have just spouted pish, and failed to answer how on earth a country with no borrowing powers and a legal obligation to balance its budge, and have a deficit.  What you showed is the GERS numbers which come from bloody whitehall for christ sake.

Getting any recognition of that fact from you is like putting a strong vest on a jellyfish.

I've repeatedly shown you that it is the mismanagement and apportioned spending against scotland by the UK  which you claim as a deficit and proof we are incapable of managing our own nation.

So again the bit we do not control is being used by you as the main case against independence.  Its utter f**kin nonsense.

Edited by Beaker71
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I see there is a big stushie in Falkirk Carse, Kinnaird and Tryst ward where Labour are putting up Joan Coombes as candidate in local elections. She has changed her name from Joan Paterson as she was apparently hated by locals when holding position in Grangemouth. She was regarded as self indulgent lazy no user and is trying to weezle her way into a neighbouring ward. Will be interesting to see how this pans out, have friends in Grangemouth and will get more info when we meet up with them on Saturday

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On 09/03/2017 at 1:43 PM, Mclean07 said:

Your last point is widely ridiculed and even SNP ministers don't claim it. I showed you recently answers published by your own government that denied it. Scotland has a 9 Billion a year shortfall currently covered directly by the rest of the UK. Now when the oil price is higher we may manage to help them out. That's how it works and why it works. 

We would have to take with us a share of the UK debt since its been built up by the whole of the UK including us. Even if we renaged on that and left the burden on the ordinary people of the rest of the UK, we'd soon build up our own given the size of our deficit. Of course the EU would also demand a massive austerity programme as we are currently worse off than Greece. 

The denial continues and the twisted logic is worthy of Trump, despite no serious economist or the SNP leadership denying our deficit problem. 

Bring on the referendum. I actually sympathise with serious members of the SNP putting forward a credible plan to the electorate when the have to deal with fantasists like yourself. It actually harms your case. 

No more replies from me. I've said my piece and I received the same crazed, deluded relies as ever.

PS Teachers dealing one to one with kids who need special help are being pulled into the classroom to cover the shambles that is Scottish education. The kids are being left stranded after months of painstaking work with them and seeing improvement. Direct from a teacher it happened to his very week, along with other colleagues.  All because the SNP after ten years haven't had the basic competence to plan teacher numbers. SNP council, SNP government. This is real life on the ground in SNP Scotland. But hey, don't worry folks, after ten years it's the FM's " top priority ".

I'm sorry but are we to believe that education, health service, prisons and the whole range of public services are far better managed south of the border? That's certainly not my understanding of the situation despite the fact that there are tuition fees, prescription charges etc. Am I missing something?

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18 hours ago, historyman said:

I'm sorry but are we to believe that education, health service, prisons and the whole range of public services are far better managed south of the border? That's certainly not my understanding of the situation despite the fact that there are tuition fees, prescription charges etc. Am I missing something?

Yep Mcleans lopsided brain, where union = wonderful and Scotland I would be a wasteland worse than downtown Homs inside a week of being independent.  Honestly the pish he comes out with again and again despite being proven to be utterly wrong is beyond belief.

Never answers a question properly beyond taking little snippets out of context and using them as FACT to back up his too wee, too poor, too stupid agenda.

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On 3/9/2017 at 5:11 PM, skygod said:

Nothing is for ever.

Very few things in politics are for more than a few years. Give it five years and things could be very different.

Could be different for the worse, mind you....

 

True  but if Labour are anything but an nonentity in 5 years time, both in Scotland and the UK as a whol then i'll be amazed.  

They are an irrelevance on a national and local scale just now. Pretty sad really but they've only got themselves to blame. They've sleep walked into this.

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