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1 hour ago, Mclean07 said:

Scottish people who are not activists or crazed party fanatics (Like you, you mean) are, like voters across the UK, generally sensible.

They know Brexit is complicated enough and an independence referendum in the middle of it is a daft idea

The only people claiming that we should have a referendum in the MIDDLE of this are Unionists, the SNP and Greens have both said it should take place AFTER the terms are known - Please keep up old boy).

The SNP has also been in power for a decade and has done a poor job on Scottish education, health and the economy - Pish Pish and more Pish. how many more times do unionists need to be shown facts that the NHS is performing above the rest of the UK and waaay above where it was ten years ago. Education comments as well are just plain bull. As for the Economy - which one of the economic levers do they suggest the SNP use..... Oh that's right ALL of them are fukn RESERVED.

Shouldn’t Sturgeon and her lot get on with that rather than being fixated on securing Indyref2? Yep. - Oh the old get on with the day job "TORY" jibe.

Nicola Sturgeon has also started to really annoy non-Nationalists. You have to visit Scotland to get the full sense of the backlash, after years in which people kept their voices down for fear of social retribution. The initial Sturgeon promise of reaching out has been replaced by increasingly intemperate strutting about and a refusal to even acknowledge, with a dash of humility, that not everything is wonderful in the SNP garden. Sturgeon said any talk of a “backlash” against her is “ludicrous”. She’s gradually going the full Thatcher.  This is quite ridiculous, The unionist press really are starting to all turn into David Heffer now - They and you need a lie down.

Incidentally, there was an undignified little row the seat numbers, with the chief executive of the SNP (Mrs Sturgeon’s husband) accusing the BBC of undestating the Nat tally. This brought down the full might of the cybernat online nuts on the Beeb. Lost in the row was the reality that the Beeb had simply adjusted for boundary changes in an effort to be fair. - actually no they didn't anyone could read, see and hear they tried to say the SNP had LOST seats, and votes and that the Tories had SURGED up to 23.5% - which incidentally was less than Labour got last time around.  Only Brian Taylor who incidentally is a Liberal democrat poured any sense onto the fire of hypocrisy the BBC were starting.

This all runs counter to the Nationalist narrative of destiny and imminent success on the constitution. The events of the last three or so years were supposed to be the prelude to independence becoming inevitable. Right now it just isn’t working out the way they intended, which is hilarious. - This is delusional unionist propaganda of the type - say it often enough and folks will believe its real. How can having more votes, more seats being seen as a defeat!!!!

Extracts from an interesting article by Iain Martin (clearly has red white and blue glasses on for that article which has more mince in it that a browning scotch pie)

 

 

 

 

OK lets just look at what you have posted above - comments in RED

 

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10 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

comments in RED

I've not seen that much red white and blue since..

 

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5 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

OK lets just look at what you have posted above - comments in RED

 

Education is the one that most shows you up to be a cloth eared zealot. Even your own leader and education secretary admit openly to the underperformance. It's just taken as read by every sane person. But unlike me, you can't admit to anything, ever being wrong with your cult. That's the one that proves debating with you is a complete waste of time. Scotland is one quarter from being officially in recession. The only part of the U.K. Everyone is working under the same rules, but we have an Administration that is lazy, complacent, arrogant and lacking in the slightest bit of drive or imagination.That's the difference. Imagine if anyone ever let them run the whole show.

Luckily for the Scottish people, they never will.

 

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13 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

Sigh - same old tired pish form you - FFS Admit Labour were and are a clusterf**k and we can at least have a sensible debate.  if you keep trying the policies only help the middle class mince you will as usual be ridiculed, then ignored.

Or you could be reasoned in your responses/views. All you ever do is slate the question/source/facts or figures used. Now most sensible people would if you push them say that their political party of favour could have done things better when they were and/or in power. But no not you. No the snp are beyond reproach, for anything whatsoever.

 

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10 minutes ago, Bhamkillieken said:

Or you could be reasoned in your responses/views. All you ever do is slate the question/source/facts or figures used. Now most sensible people would if you push them say that their political party of favour could have done things better when they were and/or in power. But no not you. No the snp are beyond reproach, for anything whatsoever.

 

He doesn't post any facts, and as for your last sentence that isn't even close to being accurate.  However in the face of constant groundless propaganda from mclean and his refusal or inability to answer what should be a fairly simple question for such an avid supporter of the union, so far I have found almost everyone who does support the union unwilling or unable to give us a positive case which doesn't denigrate Scotland or its people. For me that speaks volumes.

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8 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

Education is the one that most shows you up to be a cloth eared zealot. Even your own leader and education secretary admit openly to the underperformance. It's just taken as read by every sane person. But unlike me, you can't admit to anything, ever being wrong with your cult. That's the one that proves debating with you is a complete waste of time. Scotland is one quarter from being officially in recession. The only part of the U.K. Everyone is working under the same rules, but we have an Administration that is lazy, complacent, arrogant and lacking in the slightest bit of drive or imagination.That's the difference. Imagine if anyone ever let them run the whole show.

Luckily for the Scottish people, they never will.

 

And the name calling, and again the refusal to accept the facts on the economy.  For the last time, all the economic levers are controlled by london and just because the rules are the same doesn't make them fit everyone's demographic.

Tell you what go and give your neighbour all your wages/pension/benefits and let them give you back oh lets say 30-40% back and have them call to a grant.  But remember you cannot borrow and are only allowed to send it on certain things.  Now your neighbour will spend all of their money and yours then they will borrow money from the local loan shark in your name.  So when the loan shark comes to kneecap you, you won't mind being called economically illiterate will you!.

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8 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

Education is the one that most shows you up to be a cloth eared zealot. Even your own leader and education secretary admit openly to the underperformance. It's just taken as read by every sane person. But unlike me, you can't admit to anything, ever being wrong with your cult. That's the one that proves debating with you is a complete waste of time. Scotland is one quarter from being officially in recession. The only part of the U.K. Everyone is working under the same rules, but we have an Administration that is lazy, complacent, arrogant and lacking in the slightest bit of drive or imagination.That's the difference. Imagine if anyone ever let them run the whole show.

Luckily for the Scottish people, they never will.

 

You don't debate, anytime we ask a question you deflect, hide and ignore.  Give me the positive case, c'mon I dare you!

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11 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

He doesn't post any facts, and as for your last sentence that isn't even close to being accurate.  However in the face of constant groundless propaganda from mclean and his refusal or inability to answer what should be a fairly simple question for such an avid supporter of the union, so far I have found almost everyone who does support the union unwilling or unable to give us a positive case which doesn't denigrate Scotland or its people. For me that speaks volumes.

I've told you multiple times the case for the union. Life is fine. 

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3 minutes ago, Brianstorm said:

I've told you multiple times the case for the union. Life is fine. 

Firstly we never asked you, secondly nae bother Jack, try looking beyond your own little world and you will find it really isn't.  But then the elite don't want you to look anywhere other than where hey tell you to.

And finally we keep asking McLean but he won't and can't answer.

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1 minute ago, Brianstorm said:

The greens have pulled out of Moray.  Cynical. 

Oh aye in the face of a similar style plea from the unionist side elsewhere.  This is binary politics vote for Scotland or against it clear choice, a welcoming socially responsible scotland or a tory far right brexiting s**te hole. But I am sure you will be all right jack wrapped up in your union flag lying at the feet of your masters.

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35 minutes ago, Brianstorm said:

The greens have pulled out of Moray.  Cynical. 

What is cynical about it?

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1 hour ago, Beaker71 said:

He doesn't post any facts, and as for your last sentence that isn't even close to being accurate.  However in the face of constant groundless propaganda from mclean and his refusal or inability to answer what should be a fairly simple question for such an avid supporter of the union, so far I have found almost everyone who does support the union unwilling or unable to give us a positive case which doesn't denigrate Scotland or its people. For me that speaks volumes.

ok if my last sentence isnt close to being accurate can you tell me what the SNP have done that you are not happy with?

 

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48 minutes ago, Bhamkillieken said:

ok if my last sentence isnt close to being accurate can you tell me what the SNP have done that you are not happy with?

 

The coffee was a bit off at one of their conferences. Other than that, tickety boo!!

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Some facts for the Education Deniers who care more about defending the SNP than the nation's children. And more wealth transfer to the middle classes. Grievance politics taking a heavy toll on our country.

Education: In education, Scotland achieved its worst ever performance in the PISA surveys last year. The Programme for International Student Assessment found Scotland has plummeted down the league tables for maths, reading, and science when compared to 34 other developed countries and the rest of the UK. Scotland’s ranking dropped from 11th to 23rd for reading since 2006, from 11th to 24th for maths and from 10th to 19 for science recording its worst ever ratings.

And it does not fair better for higher education.

For all the fanfare surrounding Scotland’s free university tuition, what is less known is that such tuition has been paid by cutting student grants to the poorest students and slashing 140,000 college places which were principally aimed at underprivileged and mature students. This has resulted in Scotland’s richest students being 3.53 times more likely to enter university than the poorest ones. According to the policy analyst Lucy Hunter Blackburn, SNP policy has resulted in a £20 million transfer from disadvantaged students to middle-class ones. Students from households earning less than £34,000 now graduate with between £4,000 to £5,000 more debt than those from families earning more. Scotland today is the worst place in the UK to be a student from a disadvantaged background.

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50 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

Education: In education, Scotland achieved its worst ever performance in the PISA surveys last year. The Programme for International Student Assessment found Scotland has plummeted down the league tables for maths, reading, and science when compared to 34 other developed countries and the rest of the UK. Scotland’s ranking dropped from 11th to 23rd for reading since 2006, from 11th to 24th for maths and from 10th to 19 for science recording its worst ever ratings.

And it does not fair better for higher education.

For all the fanfare surrounding Scotland’s free university tuition, what is less known is that such tuition has been paid by cutting student grants to the poorest students and slashing 140,000 college places which were principally aimed at underprivileged and mature students. This has resulted in Scotland’s richest students being 3.53 times more likely to enter university than the poorest ones. According to the policy analyst Lucy Hunter Blackburn, SNP policy has resulted in a £20 million transfer from disadvantaged students to middle-class ones.

Students from households earning less than £34,000 now graduate with between £4,000 to £5,000 more debt than those from families earning more. Scotland today is the worst place in the UK to be a student from a disadvantaged background.

Who introduced the concept of Student debt, loans and tuition fees in the first place?

(Hint: It wasn't the SNP, Lib Dems, or Tories.)

Nice passage though, very erudite in it's writing style - where you doing your plagiarism this morning? ;) 

#BOOM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/snp-has-failed-in-every-devolved-area-and-must-be-held_us_5910b2e9e4b046ea176aeddb?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004

by Dr Azeem Ibrahim Senior Fellow at the Center for Global Policy

Dr Azeem Ibrahim is a Senior Fellow at the Center for Global Policy, and Adj Research Professor at the Strategic Studies Institute, US Army War College. He received his PhD from the University of Cambridge and has previously been appointed an International Security Fellow at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University and a World Fellow at Yale University. Outside academia, Dr Ibrahim has been a reservist in the IV Battalion Parachute Regiment (UK’s elite airborne infantry reserve) and a multi-award winning entrepreneur. He was ranked as a Top 100 Global Thinker by the European Social Think Tank in 2010 and named a Young Global Leader by the World Economic Forum.

 

BACKGROUND:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/shifting-the-centre/ (2012)

He has, as far as we’ve been able to determine so far, shown little to no other published interest in Scotland. He lives on the shores of Lake Michigan, near the US-Canadian border, and in a 2008 interview about his strikingly successful and illustrious life (his self-made personal fortune is stated in the feature as £60m, in addition to the management of a hedge fund valued at £100m and with a goal of £1bn), he was described as a man for whom “His Britishness is a source of great pride”.

He’s written extensively for the Conservative Home website, including pieces on why the UK must retain Trident and how the long-term unemployed “just couldn’t be bothered” to find work. Other articles for the same site see Dr Ibrahim expressing his views that “defence funding is more important than other departmental spending” and must be protected above all other budgetary concerns, that austerity is the only way of dealing with the national debt and deficit and that only the private sector can offer a solution, and that the crime of treason should be brought back for terrorists.

Were you to list this set of beliefs to an impartial observer, we very much doubt they would reach the conclusion that Dr Ibrahim’s political persuasions lay on the “centre-left”. That the Scotsman describes his think-tank in such a way reveals, we suspect, more about the paper’s own inclinations than Dr Ibrahim’s.

Should you hear more in the Scottish media over the next two years about the findings of reports commissioned by the Scotland Institute – such as the fact that it entirely coincidentally thinks Scotland’s poor would be better off under a Westminster government committed to spending tens of billions of pounds on a new Trident than an independent Scottish Government with a policy of removing it, for example – you might wish to adjust your calibration of those findings accordingly.

Edited by RAG

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3 hours ago, Brianstorm said:

I've told you multiple times the case for the union. Life is fine. 

For you maybe, certainly isn't for many in "Great" Britain.

 

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3 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

And finally we keep asking McLean but he won't and can't answer.

He's still waiting on Labour Hame writing one so he knows what to think. 

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2 hours ago, RAG said:

Who introduced the concept of Student debt, loans and tuition fees in the first place?

(Hint: It wasn't the SNP, Lib Dems, or Tories.)

Er ... actually it WAS the Tories. Introduced top up loans as they reduced the grant component. Death by a thousand cuts, much like education, local services and the NHS today. What Nu Labour, or Tory Lite as I like to call them did was introduce tuition fees to continue the process.

Apparently it was Osborne who finally abolished the last of the financial aid from the government for the most deprived students in 2015/16.

It was the SNP who abolished tuition fees in Scotland but McLean is just going to call that government benefits for the middle classes again, isn't he?

A vot for the Tories is a vote for poverty unless you have offshore funds.

 

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3 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

Scotland today is the worst place in the UK to be a student from a disadvantaged background.

So let me get this straight - you believe that a country which offers FREE tuition means students from disadvantaged backgrounds are worse off than those same students would be in a country which charges £9000 per year in fees?

Cool story.

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Apparently the Tory analysis predicts they will get "up to" 15 Scottish seats.

I would have said 3 to 5 but then I'm constantly underestimating how right wing the general population are.

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4 hours ago, Bhamkillieken said:

ok if my last sentence isnt close to being accurate can you tell me what the SNP have done that you are not happy with?

 

mmm lets see now with the LIMITED powers available:

  • Mitigated the bedroom tax (brought in by Tories which they stole from Labour).
  • NHS outperforming every other region in the UK, and outperforming the previous administrations efforts by some 15-20% in most area's.
  • Free school meals for primary 1-3's
  • Council Tax Freeze
  • Removal of prescription charges
  • Fracking moratorium - now there is a well thought out response to the lack of real powers.
  • New Forth Crossing (much needed which Labour, the Tories and Lob Dem opposed as pointless and unnecessary nonsense!)
  • New Aberdeen western peripheral bypass - needed 25 years ago, being done on the SNP's watch
  • M8/M74 extension works - much needed and again under the SNP watch
  • Shipyards saved
  • Steelworks saved when the Tories abandoned them and labour simply stood outside with plackards!

There's a few little things off the top of my head, and remember this is with almost NO power over the decisions in the country.

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