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gdevoy

Electric Cars

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On 1/16/2019 at 9:51 AM, Lroy said:

Get your order in now then! The cars are hugely popular and there are waiting lists. By August there might be a bit more info about the VW ID Neo which looks pretty good.

So, very frustratingly, I've had to bin the idea. Waiting list for the e-Niro now enormous, with cars apparently only starting to be delivered Q2 next year, which completely stuffs me and my August deadline.

Apparently only 1000 e-Niros allocated for UK market at present.

Waiting lists slightly shorted for e-Kona, but it's not quite as nice as the Niro, and still highly unlikely to be available August.

Back to the drawing board.

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10 minutes ago, Travis said:

So, very frustratingly, I've had to bin the idea. Waiting list for the e-Niro now enormous, with cars apparently only starting to be delivered Q2 next year, which completely stuffs me and my August deadline.

Apparently only 1000 e-Niros allocated for UK market at present.

Waiting lists slightly shorted for e-Kona, but it's not quite as nice as the Niro, and still highly unlikely to be available August.

Back to the drawing board.

There very much seems to be a lack of supply on these 200+ mile EVs, becoming very popular fast, as are all EVs. I was looking at a 2nd hand Renault Zoe a year and a half ago and there were a handful under £5k second hand, the same cars are now £6k+, they've actually gone up in value. For me, getting an electric car is as far away as ever unless I totally rethink how much I want to spend on a car.

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They are building a 350kW fast charger near my work in Sunderland at the moment. I think only the Porsche Taycan is the only car on the horizon that will be able to handle that but that would fill it from 0-80% in 15 mins. (You'll almost never charge it from 0% and most cars throttle charging at 80% to protect the battery.)

Most new cars are coming with 100-125kW charging as standard. That's 0-80% on a 250mile range car in about 45-50mins. It's getting there.

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22 minutes ago, Lroy said:

There very much seems to be a lack of supply on these 200+ mile EVs, becoming very popular fast, as are all EVs. I was looking at a 2nd hand Renault Zoe a year and a half ago and there were a handful under £5k second hand, the same cars are now £6k+, they've actually gone up in value. For me, getting an electric car is as far away as ever unless I totally rethink how much I want to spend on a car.

Massively frustrated today - the six-year zero percent grant plus the £3500 discount meant the e-Niro was doable, and I'd pretty much made up my mind to go for, having owned Kias for years and always really liked them.

Felt slightly bizarre going into a dealership willing to spend and actually not being able to. Genuinely no idea what to do about next car now - very disappointed.

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39 minutes ago, Travis said:

Genuinely no idea what to do about next car now - very disappointed.

Keep away from the Leaf. Batteries don't have thermal management and they're still using CHAdeMO chargers rather than CCS which even Tesla have adopted.

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4 minutes ago, Lroy said:

Keep away from the Leaf. Batteries don't have thermal management and they're still using CHAdeMO chargers rather than CCS which even Tesla have adopted.

Tbh, I wouldn't consider anything sub-250 range. The Niro and Kona are the only viable options at the moment given that I couldn't dream of spending Tesla-type money. Given that I can't get near a Niro or Kona anytime soon I think I need to sadly and reluctantly bin the electric car plan for a few years. Now debating whether I do a two-year lease on something a bit smaller like Stonic to bridge gap or buying something in between like the Niro hybrid.

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7 hours ago, Travis said:

Now debating whether I do a two-year lease on something a bit smaller like Stonic to bridge gap or buying something in between like the Niro hybrid.

I think if you hold off 2 years you're going to have 5x as many options as you do now. Loads of cars seem to be aiming for ~2021 launches. 

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s**t range, better lf with a tesla, much more expensive but much better range and they definitely have a presence.

Boy at work in Norway has had three now, admittedly his are the £100k ones but they are lovely.

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2 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

s**t range, better lf with a tesla, much more expensive but much better range and they definitely have a presence.

Boy at work in Norway has had three now, admittedly his are the £100k ones but they are lovely.

Which is lovely for him, but most of us can’t remotely justify spending that amount on a car, so definitely wouldn’t be better off. 

The majic numbers in my head are sub-£30k price and +250mile range. Anything out with that feels like producing status symbols for the wealthy rather than viable alternative. 

Come on manufacturers, get a move on!

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1 minute ago, Travis said:

Which is lovely for him, but most of us can’t remotely justify spending that amount on a car, so definitely wouldn’t be better off. 

The majic numbers in my head are sub-£30k price and +250mile range. Anything out with that feels like producing status symbols for the wealthy rather than viable alternative. 

Come on manufacturers, get a move on!

Picky about size? The new Renault Zoe might be out by the end of the year and if the current version is anything to go by it'll be closer to £20k. Should have 250 mile range, 100kW charging and will also be slightly bigger than the current verison.

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1 minute ago, Lroy said:

Picky about size? The new Renault Zoe might be out by the end of the year and if the current version is anything to go by it'll be closer to £20k. Should have 250 mile range, 100kW charging and will also be slightly bigger than the current verison.

Need something a bit bigger as it’ll be main family car, and needs to do trips to Ireland, France and snowboarding etc. Switching from a Sportage, so need something bigger than Zoe (although contemplating one of those as second car in due course).

need something Niro size-ish. As you said previously, I think I’ll do a two-year short lease, let the market expand slightly then go for it at that stage. Just frustrated at missing the six-year 0% grant, which is a ludicrously good deal ending next month. 

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Watched a YouTube thingy from some guys who do this sort of thing with all sorts of road vehicles. They completely stripped a Tesla down to the ground then did a report on it.

They said in terms of engineering it was top of the range. better than a lot of stuff currently on the road. However in terms of coming off a production line the design was really poor. Too many bits to fit together, too many joins to make. So basically it would cost a fortune for anybody to make.

Sounds like Tesla need to get some people on board used to producing stuff for the mass market.

 

  

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5 hours ago, stumack said:

that is one seriously butt ugly car. The Polestar 2 is getting my attention at the moment

There's a website somewhere were you can play with the infotainment system on your phone/tablet. Seemed to be very well designed.

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6 hours ago, gdevoy said:

They said in terms of engineering it was top of the range. better than a lot of stuff currently on the road. However in terms of coming off a production line the design was really poor. Too many bits to fit together, too many joins to make. So basically it would cost a fortune for anybody to make.

The Tesla Model 3 is put together poorly, especially so in the early days, but the tear down I saw said that it was the easily the most profitable electric car on the market and ranks very profitable including combustion engine cars.

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21 minutes ago, Lroy said:

The Tesla Model 3 is put together poorly, especially so in the early days, but the tear down I saw said that it was the easily the most profitable electric car on the market and ranks very profitable including combustion engine cars.

The vid I watched said there was about 5 or 10 times as many parts and the assembly effort compared to a standard Ford rolling off the factory line. That meant 5 times the labour cost putting it together. With some effort they reckoned the production costs could be slashed and that this would be necessary to compete commercially with internal combustion vehicles currently available. 

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7 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

The vid I watched said there was about 5 or 10 times as many parts and the assembly effort compared to a standard Ford rolling off the factory line. That meant 5 times the labour cost putting it together. With some effort they reckoned the production costs could be slashed and that this would be necessary to compete commercially with internal combustion vehicles currently available. 

 

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This was the one I watched. Looks like it precedes the "Profitable" one.

He seems to have changed his mind in the 2nd video but does not really address any of the points he made about the lack of manufacturability in the original.

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Your video looks to be more recent going by publishing date but I don't think they're hugely different in content; Bloomberg pushing a pessimistic view, autoline pushing a more optimistic outlook. In both cases, they're looking at a car that is nearly 2 years old now, Tesla have got it together a bit more since then.

As an aside, Tesla has stopped taking orders on all vehicles today, Musk promising an announcement in about an hour. Entry price model 3? v3 supercharger? Model Y? ModelS/X redesign?

 

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47 minutes ago, Lroy said:

As an aside, Tesla has stopped taking orders on all vehicles today, Musk promising an announcement in about an hour. Entry price model 3? v3 supercharger? Model Y? ModelS/X redesign?

Finally, it's the standard Model 3. Smaller battery pack with 220 mile range, standard interior.

Priced at $35,000 (£26,000) but as low as $24,000 (£18,000) after incentives.

EDIT: Full self driving also now an option for $5k.

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