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Just now, jamieboy said:

We don't have Messi though. We have players that Motherwell for example weren't sad to lose. 

We don’t have Giggs either so it kinda makes your “evidence” a moot point. Robben, Ribery, Pires, Henry, Ronaldo, Bale have all won trophies playing on the ‘wrong’ wing. It’s more effective than lumping hopeful balls in from out wide and hoping your striker can’t out jump/muscle the defence. That archaic style of play has had its day. 

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6 minutes ago, Zorro said:

We don’t have Giggs either so it kinda makes your “evidence” a moot point. Robben, Ribery, Pires, Henry, Ronaldo, Bale have all won trophies playing on the ‘wrong’ wing. It’s more effective than lumping hopeful balls in from out wide and hoping your striker can’t out jump/muscle the defence. That archaic style of play has had its day. 

My examples were examples not evidence, it's my opinion. I am not trying to be judge and jury. My examples have succesful players playing on their strong side, your examples have succesful players playing on the wrong side. My main concern is Killie. We too often go from back to front but when we do actually get the ball down, in the final third, my point is that our wingers are more concerned with trying to be goalscorers than actual providers. 2 of Jones' goals were flukes via deflections. Think Thomas has only scored for us v lower league opposition. Our wingers should not be our top scorers at the end of the season, go back to basics and make sure that they are more concerned with trying to create. Get comfortable with using both feet.  

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Wingers on opposite flanks worked for Mixu and Kenny because they had the players to make it work. Silva and Dayton especially had decent shots on them. There was a cleverness about Harkins, Shiels, Taouil and Eremenko if they came from wide. It wasn’t always about getting a shot away they thought about a pass as well. Sammon, Heff and Sheridan made runs to open up space for them to move into. The fullbacks were willing to attack the space opened up. 

None of that happens in the team at the moment. 

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1 minute ago, piffer said:

Wingers on opposite flanks worked for Mixu and Kenny because they had the players to make it work. Silva and Dayton especially had decent shots on them. There was a cleverness about Harkins, Shiels, Taouil and Eremenko if they came from wide. It wasn’t always about getting a shot away they thought about a pass as well. Sammon, Heff and Sheridan made runs to open up space for them to move into. The fullbacks were willing to attack the space opened up. 

None of that happens in the team at the moment. 

Yeah fair point there is certainly a lack of movement off the ball. To be fair to McKenzie he is one that does make runs into space. 

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I’d love to know if there is any difference in training compare to last week. Does Paul MacDonald hold different values to McCulloch. Same for Andy Millen. I had heard he had some differences of opinion with McCulloch but it was to do with player availability for the 20s. Does Boyd preach different to how he practices. 

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McKenzie as our striker?

Things must be worse than I thought. The guy has zero physical presence is a diabolical finisher.

Worst of all his runs off the ball seem to arrow in on the point that it's most difficult for the ball carrier to find him. He absolutely never shows for the ball either. Against Dundee I felt very sorry for O'Donnell because McKenzie was never there when he had the ball!

I know we have a lot of players who are worse amongst our fat pensioners but Rory isn't the answer he's not even the question and I doubt he'll ever fulfil his early promise now.

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3 hours ago, Harrogate Peter said:

McKenzie as our striker?

Things must be worse than I thought. The guy has zero physical presence is a diabolical finisher.

Worst of all his runs off the ball seem to arrow in on the point that it's most difficult for the ball carrier to find him. He absolutely never shows for the ball either. Against Dundee I felt very sorry for O'Donnell because McKenzie was never there when he had the ball!

I know we have a lot of players who are worse amongst our fat pensioners but Rory isn't the answer he's not even the question and I doubt he'll ever fulfil his early promise now.

So much hate. I genuinely do not understand some of the vitriol McKenzie gets on here.

In terms of those training pictures - Boydie is wearing leggings? What is that about - I hope it's to help him burn-off some of that excess weight he's carrying.

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For me it’s a case of watching McKenzie coming through the ranks and seeing all the good stuff he can do. Yet we go into games now and there is a negativity or fear about his play. He’s shown in the past he can go by men, he can finish, he can tackle, he can press. But time and time again he can be posted missing with only the occasional flash of what he can do. For a player who was supposed to be a striker when he came through he is possibly the most reluctant attacker we have. 

Part of his problem is he is too quiet and offers versatility. The latter is not a bad thing but it is when you don’t have a favoured position. We’ve seen him in the last few years striker, no 10, left mid, right mid, CM, DM. Who can honestly say what his best position is?

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5 hours ago, Harrogate Peter said:

McKenzie as our striker?

Things must be worse than I thought. The guy has zero physical presence is a diabolical finisher.

Worst of all his runs off the ball seem to arrow in on the point that it's most difficult for the ball carrier to find him. He absolutely never shows for the ball either. Against Dundee I felt very sorry for O'Donnell because McKenzie was never there when he had the ball!

I know we have a lot of players who are worse amongst our fat pensioners but Rory isn't the answer he's not even the question and I doubt he'll ever fulfil his early promise now.

Sorry to point out the obvious but he wasn't quoted on Saturday's team sheet, so how do you explain the constant hoof-ball tactics this weekend by O'Donnell and in particular by Captain Gorgeous. Nothing to do with McKenzie directly other than your strong personal dislike for the player. Do you feel the need to have a go at Frizzell, Thomas or Jones for their lack of constructive contribution this weekend.

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5 hours ago, KP by the sea said:

Sorry to point out the obvious but he wasn't quoted on Saturday's team sheet, so how do you explain the constant hoof-ball tactics this weekend by O'Donnell and in particular by Captain Gorgeous. Nothing to do with McKenzie directly other than your strong personal dislike for the player. Do you feel the need to have a go at Frizzell, Thomas or Jones for their lack of constructive contribution this weekend.

Agree McKenzie is the new whipping boy and the club book model gets praised every week even though he has been to blame for a goal in our last 3 home games .

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Point of personal explanation I don't hate Rory McKenzie or anyone who has ever donned the blue and white!

I just don't think he's a very good footballer and certainly not a striker as was demonstrated in the 2013/14 season he 'supported' Boyd who got 20+ whilst McKenzie scored 4.

If he's ever half as good as he first promised to be I'd be delighted but he needs to take the opportunity offered by a new manager if there's to be any chance of that happening.

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On 3 October 2017 at 1:33 PM, piffer said:

Wingers on opposite flanks worked for Mixu and Kenny because they had the players to make it work. Silva and Dayton especially had decent shots on them. There was a cleverness about Harkins, Shiels, Taouil and Eremenko if they came from wide. It wasn’t always about getting a shot away they thought about a pass as well. Sammon, Heff and Sheridan made runs to open up space for them to move into. The fullbacks were willing to attack the space opened up. 

None of that happens in the team at the moment. 

Goodness, you've just made me realise how clueless our current players are :( 

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I honestly think McKenzie has become completely lost in recent years. I think there was a lot of reliance on him when he was quite young in a very bad side. He's not confident, does a lot of running but ultimately produces very little.He's been tried out wide, he's been tried behind the striker, he's been tried centre mid and he's been tried at the back of the midfield. I don't think he's a bad player personally but I think he's been moved around so much that he's forgotten what he's good at. If he could get his confidence up then I think there could be a very good player in there but at the minute he just completely hides from the game, visibly doesn't want the ball and when he has it doesn't know where to go with it - I don't think it's solely his fault I just don't think he knows what he's supposed to be doing. If it was an option I would drop him for a few weeks and see how he reacts but we're so short in midfield that we need to persist with an underperforming McKenzie.

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1 hour ago, Fletch said:

I honestly think McKenzie has become completely lost in recent years. I think there was a lot of reliance on him when he was quite young in a very bad side. He's not confident, does a lot of running but ultimately produces very little.He's been tried out wide, he's been tried behind the striker, he's been tried centre mid and he's been tried at the back of the midfield. I don't think he's a bad player personally but I think he's been moved around so much that he's forgotten what he's good at. If he could get his confidence up then I think there could be a very good player in there but at the minute he just completely hides from the game, visibly doesn't want the ball and when he has it doesn't know where to go with it - I don't think it's solely his fault I just don't think he knows what he's supposed to be doing. If it was an option I would drop him for a few weeks and see how he reacts but we're so short in midfield that we need to persist with an underperforming McKenzie.

Did you see that midfield last week?

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2 hours ago, Fletch said:

I honestly think McKenzie has become completely lost in recent years. I think there was a lot of reliance on him when he was quite young in a very bad side. He's not confident, does a lot of running but ultimately produces very little.He's been tried out wide, he's been tried behind the striker, he's been tried centre mid and he's been tried at the back of the midfield. I don't think he's a bad player personally but I think he's been moved around so much that he's forgotten what he's good at. If he could get his confidence up then I think there could be a very good player in there but at the minute he just completely hides from the game, visibly doesn't want the ball and when he has it doesn't know where to go with it - I don't think it's solely his fault I just don't think he knows what he's supposed to be doing. If it was an option I would drop him for a few weeks and see how he reacts but we're so short in midfield that we need to persist with an underperforming McKenzie.

I couldn't agree more I think he's been asked to play a more defensive role but still has mindset as a forward player, then ends up not sure whether to stick or twist.

I don't think he's going to make it in forward positions, he needs to be contributing 10 goals a season and has never consistently achieved that.

If we had the personnel I would take him out the team and see how he got on with being re-trained as a right back, I think he has all the tools but needs to have them properly coached in a different direction.

 

 

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Some thoughtful posts here and I hope Rory and those managing/training him put the same thought into his future development.

In such a young inexperienced midfield he really ought to be the senior man and he certainly hasn't stepped up in that way.

It may well be a confidence thing but he has to overcome it as no one else can do it for him.

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