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7 minutes ago, Brianstorm said:

Absolutely pish. The English football transfer Market does not reflect "the market rate" they can and often do pay way above the market rate for players, and we should make them do the same. 

Absolutely pish.  The transfer fee a club will accept for a player also relates to the contract the player is on.  A transfer fee is simply a compensation for agreeing to release a player from his contract.  This therefore (unfortunately) relates to the market that the selling club play in (unless you are sevco of course).  The only way a premium can be achieved is if there is significant competition for a player.

Even if Killie discovered the next Ronaldo, we could never command anywhere near the same value as an England to England transfer or and England to Spain transfer, because we operate in a different market. 

By definition, the English transfer market does reflect "the market rate".  But it is a different market from the one we operate in.  The Scottish market is actually exceptional value for money, as the difference talent wise isn't as great as people think.   

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I sell s**t at work for twenty pence but thees always some mug who will pay 3 quid, so I'll hold my stock until muggins comes along and I've sold it at 3 quid. The market rate isn't 3 quid. Never has been, may be one day in the future but unlikely, and you know what, the future could be 5 quid, but f**k the future I want my 3 quid now. I could sell for twenty pence as my cost is only 10p, that's big margins, but f**k it, I'll still sell it for 3 quid, you see I don't often have stock I can sell at 3 quid, usually 20p s**t so when some good piece of kit comes along I do a decent job of punting it on, not getting too excited at the first 40p offer.  3 million or f**k off. 

Edited by Brianstorm

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12 hours ago, virtuocity said:

That's a tad unfair.  If we were to sign 15 players a year and get £1m of sales revenue from them once annually, while scraping by in the league, I would have to consider that a successful business model.

Not great for the fans, I grant you, but within a couple of years, the books would be balanced and would secure the club's financial position for years to come.

 

That was Dundee's big plan under Marr and the Bonettis ..... and we all know how that worked out.

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Just now, Brianstorm said:

I sell s**t at work for twenty pence but thees always some mug who will pay 3 quid, so I'll hold my stock until muggins comes along and I've sold it at 3 quid. The market rate isn't 3 quid. Never has been, may be one day in the future but unlikely, and you know what, the future could be 5 quid, but f**k the future I want my 3 quid now. I could sell for twenty pence as my cost is only 10p, that's big margins, but f**k it, I'll still sell it for 3 quid.  3 million or f**k off. 

Sounds like a market to me . Demand and supply meet , it’s a beautiful thing . 

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When the English clubs go shopping in Europe they always over pay as those clubs know that when they knock them back they will take the huff and come back with an over inflated fee. It’s happens time and time again. Scottish clubs are in the minority when we sell at the first bid. 

Also the inverse is true which is why Salah was on loan for two years and eventually went for peanuts.  The ridiculous wages they pay also means that they can’t shift over expensive duds to the continent as no one will pick up the tab, hence all the loans of guys on huge salaries.

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Transfer fees are almost always related to the salary the selling club are able to pay (and are paying), in conjunction with the remaining term on the players contract. Age, international and European experience will also factor in obviously but the first two will weigh far more heavily. That’s why Moult only went for £500k. He’s earning a Motherwell level wage and has 6 months left. Jones will go for somewhere between that and £750k I’d estimate to a side of similar stature to Preston. Mid table Championship so Norwich makes sense. He won’t have the same impact in that league as he does in SPL as defences are generally better, quicker and faster. Best of luck to him if he gets the chance to substantially increase his salary and profile, he’d go with my best wishes. 

There’s no point Killie hanging out for millions as it’ll never be offered. Take a decent offer and go and find another rough diamond a bigger team rejected and repeat. Sell onto Championship/League 1, who sell to Southampton, Stoke, Burnley, etc, who Liverpool, Utd might buy, who Barca, Real and their likes then might buy. Scottish football is just a small cog in the machine that makes football agents rich, but we’ll never get the big bucks for our talent as we don’t pay it to begin with.

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5 hours ago, casual observer said:

Transfer fees are almost always related to the salary the selling club are able to pay (and are paying), in conjunction with the remaining term on the players contract. Age, international and European experience will also factor in obviously but the first two will weigh far more heavily. That’s why Moult only went for £500k. He’s earning a Motherwell level wage and has 6 months left. Jones will go for somewhere between that and £750k I’d estimate to a side of similar stature to Preston. Mid table Championship so Norwich makes sense. He won’t have the same impact in that league as he does in SPL as defences are generally better, quicker and faster. Best of luck to him if he gets the chance to substantially increase his salary and profile, he’d go with my best wishes. 

There’s no point Killie hanging out for millions as it’ll never be offered. Take a decent offer and go and find another rough diamond a bigger team rejected and repeat. Sell onto Championship/League 1, who sell to Southampton, Stoke, Burnley, etc, who Liverpool, Utd might buy, who Barca, Real and their likes then might buy. Scottish football is just a small cog in the machine that makes football agents rich, but we’ll never get the big bucks for our talent as we don’t pay it to begin with.

So Van Dyke, Coutiho were on millions at their respective clubs thats why they cost £72m and £142m respectively, I don't think so. Both clubs rejected earlier bids as they weren't enough for them and stood their ground and got much higher offers. Granted (according to media reports) Coutinho has paid £11.2m of his own transfer fee but Liverpool still received alot more than they were initially offered.

What I'm saying is we shouldn't be accepting small amounts for our players. First offers should be rejected and buying clubs asked for at least 1.5 times what a player is worth and be negotiated down.

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2 hours ago, Bigbill said:

So Van Dyke, Coutiho were on millions at their respective clubs thats why they cost £72m and £142m respectively, I don't think so. Both clubs rejected earlier bids as they weren't enough for them and stood their ground and got much higher offers. Granted (according to media reports) Coutinho has paid £11.2m of his own transfer fee but Liverpool still received alot more than they were initially offered.

What I'm saying is we shouldn't be accepting small amounts for our players. First offers should be rejected and buying clubs asked for at least 1.5 times what a player is worth and be negotiated down.

They went for crazy money because their respective clubs can afford to not sell these players on the cheap. They have premier league tv money backing them up. The contract value is also a factor. Coutinho at say 100k a week for 5 years is 26 million anyway, plus compensation is required in case the team drops places in the league as a result.

The Kilmarnocks and Motherwells of this world take what they can get as we haven't the financial backing to offset the loss in transfer fee if the player goes on bosman. It's better now than a few years ago as we can hold out for 500k rather than the 200k or so we got for Kennedy or 300k for Bryson.

 

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Here’s a theory . Rather than waste time and effort arguing about what a player is worth, why don’t we test it in the real world? We could , let me see , offer a player for sale and accept the highest bid . Like selling your house . Now , we have a wee pied a terre holiday place in Troon , probs get the thick end of quarter of a mill if we weren’t in a rush . Put it in Killie , 100k , not much more . Put it Notting Hill , 2 mill , easy . That’s the way of things . Point is , if clubs believe their assets are worth a lot more , then ask for a lot more . But they don’t because they aren’t . Plus there are no Scottish players in any of the top teams . None . 

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25 minutes ago, diamond_geezer said:

Here’s a theory . Rather than waste time and effort arguing about what a player is worth, why don’t we test it in the real world? We could , let me see , offer a player for sale and accept the highest bid . Like selling your house . Now , we have a wee pied a terre holiday place in Troon , probs get the thick end of quarter of a mill if we weren’t in a rush . Put it in Killie , 100k , not much more . Put it Notting Hill , 2 mill , easy . That’s the way of things . Point is , if clubs believe their assets are worth a lot more , then ask for a lot more . But they don’t because they aren’t . Plus there are no Scottish players in any of the top teams . None . 

Andy Robertson?

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39 minutes ago, diamond_geezer said:

Here’s a theory . Rather than waste time and effort arguing about what a player is worth, why don’t we test it in the real world? We could , let me see , offer a player for sale and accept the highest bid . Like selling your house . Now , we have a wee pied a terre holiday place in Troon , probs get the thick end of quarter of a mill if we weren’t in a rush . Put it in Killie , 100k , not much more . Put it Notting Hill , 2 mill , easy . That’s the way of things . Point is , if clubs believe their assets are worth a lot more , then ask for a lot more . But they don’t because they aren’t . Plus there are no Scottish players in any of the top teams . None . 

What are you doing with all those spaces between words and commas, and words and periods? Why doesn't the first comma, or the interrogation point, deserve such a space?

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Can we stop peddling the myth that Lee Clarke earned us 2m from 2 players? He earned us £1m for Souley, and deserves praise for that. Im not sure how many players he actually signed as opposed to loaned, but it was a fair number therefore we should say he earned us £x from y number of players. Plus, it could be argued that JJ did nothing under Clarke, and it was only after LM got into JJ that he started playing well. 

 

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7 minutes ago, fmcc said:

Im not sure how many players he actually signed as opposed to loaned, but it was a fair number therefore we should say he earned us £x from y number of players.

Lee Clark signings

Miles Addison
Alex Henshall
Julien Faubert
Jamie Cobain
Josh Webb
Karleigh Osborne
Callum McFadzean -
Dapo Kayode
Martin Smith
Nathan Tyson
Souleymane Coulibaly
Jordan Jones
Scott Boyd

Around half of these - Henshall, Cobain, Webb, Osborne, McFadzean, Kayode - hardly kicked a ball for the club.

I think it was closer to £800k we got for Coulibaly.

 

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On 06/01/2018 at 10:33 PM, killieblue said:

Also, That’s another good thing that Lee Clark did. If Jones does go for 1 million, That’s 2 million made from 2 players.

Lee Clark is set to make a shock return to management as the new boss of Latvian side FC Riga......

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Coutinho signed an improved deal at Anfield a year ago and was “rewarded” if reports from informed journalists are correct with a weekly wage of ~£150k, almost £8m a year. If you don’t think VVD signed his new improved 6 year deal 6 months earlier with Southampton for at least £40k a week I assume you don’t know much about Premier league salaries? So yes they were earning millions, and I’m amazed anyone would be daft enough to think guys at Coutinho’s level especially, in that league aren’t! It drives up the transfer value by getting longer term deals on bigger salaries agreed for clubs’ hottest prospects. It’s been Spurs business plan for years now.

To expect Killie with an average first team annual salary of what was it £55k? to play hardball with transfers of players to significantly bigger clubs is naive (putting it politely). We will have a valuation at board level with input from SSC, if it’s met then thanks and goodbye to any of our staff. 

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3 hours ago, fmcc said:

Can we stop peddling the myth that Lee Clarke earned us 2m from 2 players? He earned us £1m for Souley, and deserves praise for that. Im not sure how many players he actually signed as opposed to loaned, but it was a fair number therefore we should say he earned us £x from y number of players. Plus, it could be argued that JJ did nothing under Clarke, and it was only after LM got into JJ that he started playing well. 

 

If we get a similar fee for Jones than we did Coulibaly then it's simple fact that we're earning a very good return from the crop of signings financially regardless of how you want to word it.

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1 hour ago, Isle of Wight Exile said:

What about George Green and Charleeeeeee Adam

If they had been permanent signings they would have been on the list. 

 

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I see that Jamie Walker, surely a better and more consistent player than Jones, has signed for League One Wigan Athletic. 

An undisclosed fee, believed to be well below £10m, changed hands. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, skygod said:

Lee Clark signings

Miles Addison
Alex Henshall
Julien Faubert
Jamie Cobain
Josh Webb
Karleigh Osborne
Callum McFadzean -
Dapo Kayode
Martin Smith
Nathan Tyson
Souleymane Coulibaly
Jordan Jones
Scott Boyd

Around half of these - Henshall, Cobain, Webb, Osborne, McFadzean, Kayode - hardly kicked a ball for the club.

I think it was closer to £800k we got for Coulibaly.

 

 

who the hell was alex henshall? I genuinely have no memory of him at all:/

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Just now, aldo said:

 

who the hell was alex henshall? I genuinely have no memory of him at all:/

I think he played once on the last day of the season against Dundee United when we got beat left midfield I think

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Henshall was an ex-Man City and Ipswich winger who now plays for Nuneaton - Clark certainly had an eye for a player on their way down.

He played in the Dundee Utd defeat and seven mins as a substitute against Partick Thistle.

 

 

 

 

Edited by skygod

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