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Scooter

Rise Of The Nazis

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1 hour ago, Mclean07 said:

Again, just your opinion, not fact. More is spent per head on Scottish people than nearly any other area of the UK. Scotland would have a huge deficit (accepted by the SNP leadership) if it went Indy, and it would cause massive austerity to reduce this to accept a EU rules. Sorry if I don’t want that for my people. I’m not a nationalist of any kind. Hate it. I’m one of those weirdos who think individual people matter, not where they were born. 

Not this old chestnut, we also co tribute more per head than everywhere other than the city of london.  The deficit as you paint it is horses**t, as has been pointed out to you many times.

 

If you and you're neighbour chip in for a car and he crashes it while drunk and then decides to get the guys at gas monkey to do it up and build him a garage, running up a massive bill.  Are you going to accept you're liable for half of the bill?

This is exactly what the UK does.  It spends money it doesn't have on s**t we don't need or want, then decides where this spend was made.  SCOTLAND doesn't spend this money, our meagre partial refund has to be spent in a way which balances the books.

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Independence for Scotland is about more than just one political party, but it's easy to box it in as narrow nationalism if you tend not to want to think too much!

It's about being a nation that exists to govern itself and interact independently with other nations.

This is what the European Union is; Independent nations working together with each other, and with each having the power of veto.

This is NOT what the United Kingdom is; one nation dominating over the other 3, with the smaller nations having very little influence and no power of veto.

Which is why the union with the EU is NOT the same as our union with the rUK.

But you get the little fascists and the back turners and the purposefully ignorant .... trying to pervert the meaning of Independence for their own ends, finding extremist positions and extrapolating that over the whole idea.

They ignore concepts of nationhood and misconstrue it as base 'nativism', which is wholly inaccurate but works for their agenda. 

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20 minutes ago, Scooter said:

This is what the European Union is; Independent nations working together with each other, and with each having the power of veto.

And here you have summed up concisely the argument for Scotland separating itself from Westminster and Joining the EU. Some people seem to have trouble with this rationale, I don't understand why. We would have more influence in the EU than we do in the UK.

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On 9/18/2019 at 5:53 PM, Beaker71 said:

Not this old chestnut, we also co tribute more per head than everywhere other than the city of london.  The deficit as you paint it is horses**t, as has been pointed out to you many times.

 

If you and you're neighbour chip in for a car and he crashes it while drunk and then decides to get the guys at gas monkey to do it up and build him a garage, running up a massive bill.  Are you going to accept you're liable for half of the bill?

This is exactly what the UK does.  It spends money it doesn't have on s**t we don't need or want, then decides where this spend was made.  SCOTLAND doesn't spend this money, our meagre partial refund has to be spent in a way which balances the books.

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On 9/18/2019 at 8:17 AM, Beaker71 said:

To even contemplate linking the Yes movement with the evil of the third Reich is contemptible,  even for you.

You should be f**king ashamed.

AFTER almost a decade in power at Holyrood, the SNP is the dominant force in Scottish politics and has growing influence at both Westminster and on the wider international stage.

By BEN BORLAND

PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Sep 18, 2016

0

NCFormer Leader of the SNP Arthur Donaldson with Hitler Youth members

For the majority of the new supporters who have flocked to the party in recent years, the Nationalists represent a shining beacon of progressive, forward-thinking democracy.

However, these new converts to the cause would no doubt be shocked by the SNP's historic links to Adolf Hitler, Fascism and the Nazis both before and during Second World War.

Rather embarrassingly for current leader Nicola Sturgeon, the details are laid bare in a major new political anthology called Scottish National Party Leaders.

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Featuring pen portraits by leading academics and writers of all the people who have stood at the helm of the SNP during its tumultous 88-year history, this heavyweight tome has been described as "remarkable", "compelling" and "long overdue".

Former Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill even enthused: "A fascinating backdrop to the interesting political times Scotland now faces and the characters that lived the dream that has never died."

One of these "characters" is founder member Andrew Dewar Gibb, who became the second chairman of the party in 1934 and frequently quoted Hitler in his public speeches.

GETTYThe SNP was once a far cry from the progressive party led by Nicola Sturgeon

This chapter is written by the historian Dr Catriona Macdonald, of Glasgow University, who states: "Gibb was clearly sympathetic to Nazism as a bulwark against communism (or at least as the lesser of two evils), and shared its anti-Semitic anxieties, even if he did not support its approach to dealing with them."

Although Gibb gave his backing to Winston Churchill when war was declared, he admitted in his diary "I don't care who wins" and offered to resign at a party meeting in Edinburgh, saying he "made no secret of my distinct Fascist leanings".

He was replaced by the journalist William Power, who had previously argued that the "overthrow of Hitlerism" was "not legitimate", before he in turn was replaced by the socialist firebrand Douglas Young.

GETTYThe SNP once had links to Adolf Hitler and Nazism

Young was strongly opposed to the war and led the campaign against conscription on the basis that Westminster had no legal right to order Scots into battle. This stance saw him jailed after a sensational trial and he began his leadership of the party from behind bars.

Another historian, Dr Gordon Pentland of Edinburgh University, describes a "dark side to Young's nationalism", illustrated by articles such as "Scotland and the New World Order" and "Quislings in Scotland".

Discussing the war against Hitler's Germany, Young once wrote: "The SNP must not be thirled to democracy in case democracy should be the wrong camp."

He stood down when the party ruled he could not continue to be a member of both Labour and the SNP, to be replaced by Bruce Watson, a chemist at Aberdeen University.

His son, Roderick Watson, recalls the family home being raided in 1941 by MI5 officers looking for "subversive literature and weapons", although they left empty handed.

Further raids carried out by the police in the same year led to Arthur Donaldson, who went on to become SNP chairman in 1957. Officers found five revolvers, ammunition, Fascist material and a letter to Nazi secret agent Dr Gerhard von Taverner, leading to Donaldson being imprisoned as a potential collaborator. 

GETTYIt has been revealed that former SNP leaders have been sympathetic towards Fascism

According to MI5 files, Donaldson believed that Scotland should make a deal with Hitler as England would be "completely crushed" by the Nazis, although author Ewen Angus Cameron claims this "looks more like hearsay".

Cameron writes: "Nevertheless, Arthur Donaldson's own writing illustrated that he had no loyalty to the British state. In 1942, he commenced a pamphlet by describing three possible outcomes to the war: defeat, victory or negotiated stalemate.

"He believed that any of the three would leave Scotland in a better position than the slide towards exploited colony that he regarded the pre-war years as having been. He clearly had no grasp of what a Nazi occupation would have looked like and consequently held both sides in the war in equal contempt.

"For Donaldson, the British Empire was certainly not a force for good."

The British Empire may not have always been a force for good but, unlike Hitler's Third Reich which so enamoured some early SNP leaders, at least it was not a force for unadulterated evil

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/711752/snp-links-adolf-hitler-fascism-revealed-political-anthology-james-mitchell-gerry-hassan/amp

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2 minutes ago, Gallus said:

Ffs you lot are really scraping the barrel now.  Care to see the photo of her major giving the nazi salute?

How many bloody decades ago was any of this, is any of it relevant to today?

The SNP is a left of centre party, a properly multicultural and multinational membership.

If you want to look for close links to the far right now, look the the brexit party and the bloody Tories 

 

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8 hours ago, Gallus said:

The British Empire may not have always been a force for good but, unlike Hitler's Third Reich which so enamoured some early SNP leaders, at least it was not a force for unadulterated evil

I’m not sure what’s worse about this particular “they’re  Nazis” stick being used to beat the current SNP; the hypocrisy in that the British establishment were far more enamoured with Hitler and facisim than the snp were or the lack of awareness that the British empire has been guilty of orchestrating some of the worlds worst atrocities. However, this selective perspective of historical events is a root cause of the cancerous British Nationalism driving Brexit imo.  

Edited by Zorro
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10 hours ago, david mcbeth said:

Yes. Britain’s biggest conceit is that we were the ‘good guys’. Every device of genocide was invented here, the only regret - as ever- being that someone else perfected it. The Nazis did it better - as usual - so we’re the best placed loser in genocide. Hooray!

If you count famines directly attributable to British policies, I don’t think we’d be anyone’s best placed loser. 

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