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Rugby Park Vegan Pies

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11 minutes ago, Killieboykfc said:

Happy to pump your body full of meat packed with additives but will turn their nose up at fresh natural produce. 

Its processed food thats wrong and gives you cancer. If you only ate fresh food, you’d be healthier, less grumpy and spend a lot more time in the kitchen! Veggie or vegan an optional extra to eating good fresh food, although by being veggie or vegan, you instantly cut out a lot, or most, of the crap!  I like honey on my toast and a bit of fish for my tea, so becoming a vegan is completely out of the question. 

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I went more or less vegetarian for about 8 months last year, only eating meat a few times, mainly at Christmas as I had already ordered the turkey before I’d decided on the change of diet! 

my main reason was all the environmental concerns on meat eating and how it is generally a very in efficient way of generating calories for human consumption. 

it was a bit of a pain cooking wise as the wife and kids stuck to eating meat but other than that I didn’t miss eating meat at all, lost half a stone or so and felt pretty good. I was eating a fair bit of quorn type products and did wonder if these, being processed, were really much healthier than meat. Also whether the environmental concerns were as valid in Scotland where home grown meat doesn’t require the massive crop growing and irrigation it does in other parts of the world.

the end of my experiment was a barbecue for my daughters birthday, I genuinely forgot to put the veggie burgers on and by the time I’d realised the meat was all ready, after half an hour cooking it all I couldn’t resist!

I’ll still eat vegetarian sausages, burgers, mince etc from time to time and enjoy it almost as much as meat, and it’s certainly much lower in fat. Something that may sound daft but works well is a half and half mix of meat and veggie mince in chillis etc 

Edited by Tom061087

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Careful now...

 

A vegan couple have been charged with first-degree murder after their 18-month-old son starved to death on a diet of only raw fruit and vegetables.

Ryan Patrick O'Leary, 30, and Sheila O'Leary, 35, were also charged with aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter, child abuse and two counts of child neglect by a grand jury in Lee County, Florida, on Wednesday.

A police report said their son, who has not been named, weighed only 17 pounds (8kg) when he died.

Experts said the weight is in line with what a seven-month-old child should weigh.

The couple from Cape Coral, Florida, told officers they are vegan and only eat raw fruits and vegetables.

Mrs O'Leary had called 911 in September when she noticed her son was not breathing and felt cold, according to a police report.

She tried to resuscitate the baby but he was dead when paramedics arrived, according to the Florida broadsheet the News-Press.

State Attorney Amira Fox said the charges the couple face also cover the alleged treatment of their three other children, who are said to have suffered from child abuse and extreme neglect.

They have a three and a five-year-old child who are now in state custody, while an 11-year-old is in the care of her biological father, NBC News reports.

Mrs Fox said: "The evidence and crime scene in this case are gut-wrenching.

"These are images as a mother and state attorney I will not be able to forget."

The couple are set to appear in court on Monday.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/parents-accused-of-starving-child-to-death-on-vegan-diet/ar-BBYbNWK?li=BBoPWjQ#image=2

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On 12/21/2019 at 2:12 PM, CB said:

Careful now...

 

A vegan couple have been charged with first-degree murder after their 18-month-old son starved to death on a diet of only raw fruit and vegetables.

Ryan Patrick O'Leary, 30, and Sheila O'Leary, 35, were also charged with aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter, child abuse and two counts of child neglect by a grand jury in Lee County, Florida, on Wednesday.

A police report said their son, who has not been named, weighed only 17 pounds (8kg) when he died.

Experts said the weight is in line with what a seven-month-old child should weigh.

The couple from Cape Coral, Florida, told officers they are vegan and only eat raw fruits and vegetables.

Mrs O'Leary had called 911 in September when she noticed her son was not breathing and felt cold, according to a police report.

She tried to resuscitate the baby but he was dead when paramedics arrived, according to the Florida broadsheet the News-Press.

State Attorney Amira Fox said the charges the couple face also cover the alleged treatment of their three other children, who are said to have suffered from child abuse and extreme neglect.

They have a three and a five-year-old child who are now in state custody, while an 11-year-old is in the care of her biological father, NBC News reports.

Mrs Fox said: "The evidence and crime scene in this case are gut-wrenching.

"These are images as a mother and state attorney I will not be able to forget."

The couple are set to appear in court on Monday.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/parents-accused-of-starving-child-to-death-on-vegan-diet/ar-BBYbNWK?li=BBoPWjQ#image=2

A raw diet is a really extreme form of veganism, but it is possible to raise a child on one if you know what you're doing which that couple clearly did not.

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On 12/17/2019 at 7:17 PM, Killieboykfc said:

Happy to pump your body full of meat packed with additives but will turn their nose up at fresh natural produce. 

 

On 12/21/2019 at 2:09 PM, Tom061087 said:

my main reason was all the environmental concerns on meat eating and how it is generally a very in efficient way of generating calories for human consumption. 

I'm not sure the environmental concerns are a result of meat eating, but rather globalisation. Most supermarket lamb comes from New Zealand when we're perfectly capable of producing it here. 

I had a quick look in my fridge and cupboards at the veggies, and found:

Basil from Kenya, thyme from Germany, rosemary from Italy, courgette and peppers from Spain, limes from Brazil, blueberries from Chile, and blackberries from Mexico. I had bananas without a label, but I don't think they were from Dalry. 

Only my carrots, parsnips and potatoes were from Scotland. I'm not sure how 'fresh and natural' fruit from South America can be. 

Edited by Scooby_Doo

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Watched an interesting thing on YouTube the other day about the carbon footprint argument from vegetarians and vegans.

Local butcher from Yorkshire stood in his shop with a kilo of avocados and a kilo of fresh steak.

The steak came from cows who graze on land which cannot be used for any arable, or other farming purpose and is unsuitable for building on.  This land is 5 miles from his shop and the meat was butchered in an abattoir 5 miles further south.  Total transportarioncosts of about 15 miles.

The avocados come from Mexico, and use 150 litres of water EACH to produce in an arid area, and are then picked before being ripe and then use TWO planes and countless refrigerated trucks to reach supermarkets for people to buy them and take them home by car no doubt.

This is undoubtedly an extreme case, but the message is simple...

Buy local, buy seasonal and buy fresh.  Its healthy and good for the environment and local economy.  This would hold for the veggie or vegan amongst you.  Globalisation is the issue not meat production which is being demonized in my opinion wrongly.   Brazil and other rainforest countries should be penalised for eliminating the rainforests but this is an sociopolitical and economic argument not a moral one surrounding someones dietary choices.

Also as I understand it a lot if meat substitutes are not natural products and more than 1 was found as a by product of large chemical processes,  surely those work be good for the body or the environment?

Edited by Beaker71

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On 1/2/2020 at 4:53 PM, Scooby_Doo said:

 

I'm not sure the environmental concerns are a result of meat eating, but rather globalisation. Most supermarket lamb comes from New Zealand when we're perfectly capable of producing it here. 

I had a quick look in my fridge and cupboards at the veggies, and found:

Basil from Kenya, thyme from Germany, rosemary from Italy, courgette and peppers from Spain, limes from Brazil, blueberries from Chile, and blackberries from Mexico. I had bananas without a label, but I don't think they were from Dalry. 

Only my carrots, parsnips and potatoes were from Scotland. I'm not sure how 'fresh and natural' fruit from South America can be. 

The environmental concerns I was thinking about was more along the lines that to make a piece of beef containing x amount of calories, the animal has to eat maybe 10 times that much in cereals etc that could be eaten directly by humans. Also, in dry country’s then to grow that food for the animals requires huge artificial irrigation schemes. I think these concerns are extremely relevant in places like the USA but perhaps less so in Scotland where the animals feed so much on land that doesn’t support anything else, however I’m sure they still get quite a bit of manufactured food in their diets.

distance travelled is certainly a major concern too, however I’ve generally found that most decent quality meat is from the UK - fruit and veg definitely a different story. Even the likes of wine buying Australian must have a huge impact compared to say, french.

Edited by Tom061087

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I saw Simon Reeves in Spain (Almeria?) and the plastic waste in the soil from the processed farming was shocking. 

If you want to be an vegan for environmental reasons, you need to be eating local organic veg only really.

Edited by Pompey Exile

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On 1/2/2020 at 4:53 PM, Scooby_Doo said:

 

I'm not sure the environmental concerns are a result of meat eating, but rather globalisation.

Its animals requiring feed, which requires energy, land, water which is often scarce and diverted and producing red meat especially emits massive amounts of CO2 in production, when humans could eat veg or similar types of feed to the animals and the entire process wouldn't need to happen. Is simplistically having to at least double food production over everyone following a strict veggie or vegan diet. Then you’ve methane gas emissions produced by coo’s - substantial on an industrial farming scale when you’ve hundreds of millions or billions of folk in Asia eating a lot more meat than previously.  

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8 hours ago, RAG said:

Its animals requiring feed, which requires energy, land, water which is often scarce and diverted and producing red meat especially emits massive amounts of CO2 in production, when humans could eat veg or similar types of feed to the animals and the entire process wouldn't need to happen. Is simplistically having to at least double food production over everyone following a strict veggie or vegan diet. Then you’ve methane gas emissions produced by coo’s - substantial on an industrial farming scale when you’ve hundreds of millions or billions of folk in Asia eating a lot more meat than previously.  

Bit the same argument can be made on the other side. When crops are grown and water is scarce or sea ale land is created by removing indigenous people and forests to feed globalisation.

eat local and seasonal is the best way to combat the environmental concerns from food production, irrespective of meat, vegetable or being fully vegan.

 The morality or environmental issue surrounding veganism is horses**t in my opinion and can be hypocritical as they won’t turn down medicines when I’ll, and these will have been tested in animals,  they will most likely use makeup and shampoo etc which are also likely to have been tested on animals and produce a massive carbon footprint.

simply stop taking the false moral high ground,  if they’re vegan, vegetarian or an omnivore, shut up about it it’s no ones business but you or the place your eating in.

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1 hour ago, Beaker71 said:

The morality or environmental issue surrounding veganism is horses**t in my opinion and can be hypocritical as they won’t turn down medicines when I’ll, and these will have been tested in animals,  they will most likely use makeup and shampoo etc which are also likely to have been tested on animals and produce a massive carbon footprint.

simply stop taking the false moral high ground,  if they’re vegan, vegetarian or an omnivore, shut up about it it’s no ones business but you or the place your eating in.

'Veganism, as detailed by the Vegan Society: “Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose.”

It's not about doing it perfectly with zero impact. I don't think the "you can't do it perfectly so don't bother at all" argument makes any sense. 

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On 1/3/2020 at 6:43 PM, Tom061087 said:

The environmental concerns I was thinking about was more along the lines that to make a piece of beef containing x amount of calories, the animal has to eat maybe 10 times that much in cereals etc that could be eaten directly by humans. Also, in dry country’s then to grow that food for the animals requires huge artificial irrigation schemes. I think these concerns are extremely relevant in places like the USA but perhaps less so in Scotland where the animals feed so much on land that doesn’t support anything else, however I’m sure they still get quite a bit of manufactured food in their diets.

distance travelled is certainly a major concern too, however I’ve generally found that most decent quality meat is from the UK - fruit and veg definitely a different story. Even the likes of wine buying Australian must have a huge impact compared to say, french.

VEGANS

I have nothing against vegans or vegetarians, a lot of my friends and relations are either.

What I do object to is vegans, especially new vegans, saying they are turning to vegan diets to save the planet.

Do they have any idea where their plant based diets are grown?

Here are just a few staple foods in a vegan diet:-
Soya grown in USA (genetically) Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, China
Tofu is made from soya.
Lentils grown in Canada 51%, India 
Chickpeas grown in Iran, India, Mexico & Ethiopia
Black beans grown in Brazil, Myanmar, India & China
Almonds - California, Spain & Italy
Coconuts - Indonesia, Philippines, India

Anyone noticed the British produce?

Then let’s see how much water is needed to produce 1 almond! 1.1 gallon!!!
A walnut - 5 gallons of water!!!!!!
1 gallon of Almond milk - 920 gallons of water.

Please if people really want to save the planet can they eat British produce, grown sustainably by British farmers who maintain some of the highest husbandry, ethical and most carbon neutral goods in the world.
Put this next to the miles the staple vegan diet has to travel to the UK, the amount of virgin forest being destroyed in Brazil and Indonesia, the amount of water needed to grow it.
Do they really think they are saving the planet by going vegan?

 

Similar to my post earlier, and to back up scooby as well,  globalisation of the food chain is the biggest environmental factor here.  Brazil seeing they can make meat cheaper than europe and global businesses forcing this as policy. Its not just meat that the food industry is chopping down rainforest for.

Eat clean, local and seasonal, then they can preach.

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The stats on water used to grow nuts amaze me, I didn’t believe it when I read them there but a quick google shows they seem to be right.

however I wasn’t talking about nuts but the foods grown to feed animals which could be eaten directly by humans instead. Without being an expert on the subject I think it’s pretty much accepted that worldwide meat consumption needs to reduce significantly to have any chance of a sustainable future.

theres no doubt a lot of products being produced to meet the vegan b vegetarian demand must also have its own very large carbon footprint.

anyway as many have said buying local produce wherever possible has to have a major benefit.

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The pies have been particularly good recently (Sunday and last night)- the pastry top has been crispy and the pie has held together a lot better. I wonder if Brownings have been adjusting the recipe?

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In the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, it was common for a lad to be sent off to university with a barrel of salt herring, another of oats and a supply of kale, to be renewed from the local market. All of these (minus the salt) are recognised as "superfoods" and accounted for the Scots being the tallest people in Europe, according to the Statistical Accounts of the early twentieth century. How did we become wee bauchles then ? The First World War saw a disproportionate conscription of Scots, whose deaths meant that they were removed from the gene pool before reproducing. Also, industrialised food became cheaply and universally available and it was very bad for us. I'm trying to eat locally, which is no hardship as I live in rural France, and we eat very little red meat. When we do meat, it's always Red Label, which is a sign of high quality here, and not the name of a cheap whisky. I applaud the vegan initiative at RP and hope more people at least give it a try.

Scotland’s Big and Burly Men have Shrunk

 4

It looks like the Union of equals has proved to be anything but equal in ways you cannot imagine. Scots can expect to live shorter lives than their English neighbours and be shorter in height as well. It wasn’t always so.

Scots were once the tallest of all European peoples with Highland men pushing up the average to between 6ft and 7ft.  

At the end of the 18th century a survey of 600 crofters from Glen Tilt in Perthshire discovered every adult male in the glen was at least 6 feet tall – and broad with calves at least 17 inches around. The population of Glen Tilt were also long-lived, thriving on the traditional Scottish diet of oats, barley, vegetables, milk, butter, eggs, local grown fruit and honey supplemented with small amounts of meat, venison and fish.

Nowadays Scots suffer premature deaths and are puny compared with earlier generations as they tuck into high sugar, high fat junk food, white bread, cakes and biscuits, sugary drinks and over-sweetened  breakfast cereals with scarce a glance at the perhaps boring but wholesome foods that made their ancestors taller and stronger than them. 

Edited by jasper
omission of relevant material

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