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Scooby_Doo

Same old Killie

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22 minutes ago, Scooby_Doo said:

I'm getting fed up.

Steve Clarke took over almost two years ago. Since then, we've been organised, compact when defending and using the counter attack well. We've not been free scoring, or free flowing, but we've been effective. The league table doesn't lie.

We've now played ten games, and we're third. We had the CQN debacle, a narrow defeat to Rangers and the away defeat to Hamilton. Since then, we've reverted to type. Each week, I read the same comments - 'that was dire', 'we were murder', 'the football is terrible'. We have played the same way in every game since that Hamilton defeat. Only Celtic were able to counter it, and even then, only they and Livingston even managed to score against us (in 90 minutes for you pedants).

I wonder if some folk have had a visit from Tommy Lee Jones and WIll Smith and had the Johnston/Clark/McCulloch tenures erased from memory. Again, for those struggling with comprehension, we're third. It's not a flash in the pan, it's not papering over the cracks, it's what we do now. Clarke has gone, but the guy that coached the Italian national team, Juventus and Chelsea is in charge now and it's fair to say that the man does know what he's doing. We all know that we're missing a number ten, but we can't realistically change that until January.

We're so solid across the back four and midfield I wonder if this is the same Killie that I've been watching for nearly 25 years. So to hear the boos when, about five minutes before we scored the winning goal, when a backwards pass was played (when the alternative was GIVING THE BLOODY BALL AWAY) really made my shoulders slump.

So you'll need to suck it up, and endure effective, Europa League qualifying fitba for at least another couple of months until we sign the new Eremenko.

Until then, accept that it will be 0-0 at half time, they probably won't score, and that we might. We'll pick up plenty of points in the meantime. I've started saving for next July, and I'm going to make sure I'm registered with a supporters bus ahead of time. What about you?

The Gary Locke years were a golden age though.

Although we lost all the time and had a non-existent midfield, Rory McKenzie played fewer games.

Those were the days. 

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2 minutes ago, fraz65 said:

The Gary Locke years were a golden age though.

Although we lost all the time and had a non-existent midfield, Rory McKenzie played fewer games.

Those were the days. 

Edited to suit. 

I forgot to mention this threads' sponsor, Brewdog. Thanks guys! 

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The results are great, and I’ll be happy to finish in 3rd place winning 1-0 and playing boring football.

But you can’t say it’s not frustrating to watch, and you can’t say it’s an enjoyable watch. 

I’m sure we’d love to play attractive, expansive football, but results are a priority. Maybe it’s a base to build from and we’ll get both in the coming months. 

Edited by Bobby14

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6 hours ago, Bobby14 said:

But you can’t say it’s not frustrating to watch, and you can’t say it’s an enjoyable watch.

I don't find it frustrating at all - we've played the same formation since Stewart left - a fairly flat five in midfield, with central midfielders that aren't in the Stewart mould and sit a distance away from the lone striker.

It means that when we're in their third, swinging a cross into the box isn't an option. The opposition usually has men behind the ball, so it's difficult to get a clear shooting opportunity. So it means we have to be patient, and retain possession until we can fashion a chance. Sometimes that means playing the ball backwards. I think it's fantastic that in central midfield in particular we have two of the best players in the league at retaining possession.

I'd get the frustration if results were inconsistent, but it's been like this for a long time now, but a lot don't seem to be realising that. (I realise you're not one of them @Bobby14).

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9 hours ago, Scooby_Doo said:

I'm getting fed up.

Steve Clarke took over almost two years ago. Since then, we've been organised, compact when defending and using the counter attack well. We've not been free scoring, or free flowing, but we've been effective. The league table doesn't lie.

We've now played ten games, and we're third. We had the CQN debacle, a narrow defeat to Rangers and the away defeat to Hamilton. Since then, we've reverted to type. Each week, I read the same comments - 'that was dire', 'we were murder', 'the football is terrible'. We have played the same way in every game since that Hamilton defeat. Only Celtic were able to counter it, and even then, only they and Livingston even managed to score against us (in 90 minutes for you pedants).

I wonder if some folk have had a visit from Tommy Lee Jones and WIll Smith and had the Locke/Johnston/Clark/McCulloch tenures erased from memory. Again, for those struggling with comprehension, we're third. It's not a flash in the pan, it's not papering over the cracks, it's what we do now. Clarke has gone, but the guy that coached the Italian national team, Juventus and Chelsea is in charge now and it's fair to say that the man does know what he's doing. We all know that we're missing a number ten, but we can't realistically change that until January.

We're so solid across the back four and midfield I wonder if this is the same Killie that I've been watching for nearly 25 years. So to hear the boos when, about five minutes before we scored the winning goal, when a backwards pass was played (when the alternative was GIVING THE BLOODY BALL AWAY) really made my shoulders slump.

So you'll need to suck it up, and endure effective, Europa League qualifying fitba for at least another couple of months until we sign the new Eremenko.

Until then, accept that it will be 0-0 at half time, they probably won't score, and that we might. We'll pick up plenty of points in the meantime. I've started saving for next July, and I'm going to make sure I'm registered with a supporters bus ahead of time. What about you?

You express it so much better than I just did on another thread wish I had read this one first, lol.

10/10

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1 minute ago, Scooby_Doo said:

I don't find it frustrating at all 

I’m the same - I enjoy watching teams struggle and toil to carve out a chance, only for great positioning defensively to deny them.

Of course teams will miss the odd good chance - we aren’t Athletico Madrid.

Yesterday wasn’t a great performance but the organisation and desire are great to see.

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Yesterday I did notice that we attempted to play little passes through a packed 18 yard line on several occasions with Rory running through onto them from the side .perhaps this is being worked on in training ? With better execution to a better recipient  we could’ve scored more yesterday .

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2 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

Yesterday I did notice that we attempted to play little passes through a packed 18 yard line on several occasions with Rory running through onto them from the side .perhaps this is being worked on in training ? With better execution to a better recipient  we could’ve scored more yesterday .

That’s a good spot - I recall it happening a few times.

I do think that, even just to keep opposition on their toes, the occasional shot from the edge of the box and more variation out wide would improve our attacking further.

One of my criticisms of AA from the outset has been that it seems we are very rigid in our approach and players are making counter-intuitive decisions at times.

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I’m enjoying watching us at the moment. It’s not scintillating football but for me it’s enjoyable. There are numerous ways to win football matches we don’t all have to play the Pep way. Things like the game in Perth. No one in the stadium was putting Thomas on as lone striker and Ross Millen at right midfield but AA saw it and it completely killed what St Johnstone had. For me it’s been really interesting to see his tactics at work and how he sees things differently to the “British managers who are good top guys and really deserve a chance in the game”. 

I understand some people are frustrated at us keeping the ball etc. Just remember how you felt when s**t Ross County and Dundee teams were coming to Rugby Park and putting four past us or when teams were marauding through the non existent spine of our side. 

We all like pretty football but in recent years effective football has been what Killie are all about. 

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Effective it is. Entertaining it isn't.

A win is a win is a win and for that we should always be grateful. 

However, I will take a 3-2 or a 4-3 goal fest in front of a 1-0 bore fest any day of the week. 

We are punching above our weight in terms of budgets, perhaps we shouldn't expect effective and entertaining football, but I think it is possible. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

Yesterday I did notice that we attempted to play little passes through a packed 18 yard line on several occasions with Rory running through onto them from the side .perhaps this is being worked on in training ? With better execution to a better recipient  we could’ve scored more yesterday .

I commented on that at the time. It was promising, but it seemed to dry up after about twenty minutes

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35 minutes ago, NorfolkG said:

 

One of my criticisms of AA from the outset has been that it seems we are very rigid in our approach and players are making counter-intuitive decisions at times.

I don’t see that as a bad thing, good coaches know best when working with average players, having watched Italy over the years there was a good reason they won a few World Cups, they stuck rigidly to their plans. 
hopefully we will see a decent signing at Xmas and start to turn more chances into goals .

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2 minutes ago, killie billies pal said:

I don’t see that as a bad thing, good coaches know best when working with average players, having watched Italy over the years there was a good reason they won a few World Cups, they stuck rigidly to their plans. 
hopefully we will see a decent signing at Xmas and start to turn more chances into goals .

I like the fact we have structure, definitely. After all, it worked for SC.

I just think at times the players look restricted rather than structured.

I’m happy with the progress but feel the areas for improvement are fairly obvious and could be tweaked even before January.

Maybe ‘constricted’ is a better choice of word...

Edited by NorfolkG

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28 minutes ago, funky monkey said:

Effective it is. Entertaining it isn't.

A win is a win is a win and for that we should always be grateful. 

However, I will take a 3-2 or a 4-3 goal fest in front of a 1-0 bore fest any day of the week. 

We are punching above our weight in terms of budgets, perhaps we shouldn't expect effective and entertaining football, but I think it is possible. 

 

I’m sure if the alternative was 4-3 or 3-2 we would go with that, but it’s probably more likely to be a 3/4-0 drubbing at home like we got used to a few years ago! 

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Think it's refreshing to hear AA's comments .....on a very good run and into 3rd he could easily be saying after another win that all is good and the media critics been proved wrong....etc

But whilst he says we have done ok he again keeps stressing the need to keep improving in attacking play and work still needs to be done ...which echoes a lot of fans opinions too 

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I'm glad all this has been said and I'm very much in the win at all costs camp. Ultimately though for many especially the casual supporter football is about entertainment. If even the fanatics acknowledge the offering is brutal its going to take longer to get the crowds up to the levels they need to be to be top six most years. We're only a couple of players from guaranteed 3rd place and a much better brand of football. What I can guarantee is we won't get there at the end of the season with less than one goal per game even though that's the situation now. I think AA's comments suggest he knows this. 

 

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The football isn’t exactly exciting to watch but I always think the most important thing for overall morale is just to come away with the points. Yesterday was a prime example where we probably all left the game pretty happy. If St Mirren had nicked the points on exactly the same performance level it would have felt like a really poor game. I actually thought we tried to be a bit more probing/adventurous than before and ended up getting caught out a few times - although it was another clean sheet that was the most vulnerable I have seen is this season at the back.

there are a lot of criticisms made against attacking play, I get that it’s frustrating to see a chance to counter and the ball worked all the way back again, but with the players available there don’t seem to be many options for a pass at times - and the approach of keeping the ball and being patient has worked well in terms of results. The defensive record in particular has been hugely impressive - 8 clean sheets in the last 10 games can’t be by luck.

amazes me the level of criticism coming from some when given what happened over the summer and the first couple of games in the league, most would have laughed off any predictions of our current league position.

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1 minute ago, Tom061087 said:

The football isn’t exactly exciting to watch but I always think the most important thing for overall morale is just to come away with the points. Yesterday was a prime example where we probably all left the game pretty happy. If St Mirren had nicked the points on exactly the same performance level it would have felt like a really poor game. I actually thought we tried to be a bit more probing/adventurous than before and ended up getting caught out a few times - although it was another clean sheet that was the most vulnerable I have seen is this season at the back.

there are a lot of criticisms made against attacking play, I get that it’s frustrating to see a chance to counter and the ball worked all the way back again, but with the players available there don’t seem to be many options for a pass at times - and the approach of keeping the ball and being patient has worked well in terms of results. The defensive record in particular has been hugely impressive - 8 clean sheets in the last 10 games can’t be by luck.

amazes me the level of criticism coming from some when given what happened over the summer and the first couple of games in the league, most would have laughed off any predictions of our current league position.

Absolutely agree especially last sentence. It's miraculous after the summer and CQN. My post was just making the point that to grow the club beyond those who are ecstatic with any win anyhow we will need to address the attacking/entertainment issues. 

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55 minutes ago, Skora11 said:

I’m sure if the alternative was 4-3 or 3-2 we would go with that, but it’s probably more likely to be a 3/4-0 drubbing at home like we got used to a few years ago! 

I disagree completely. 

With the current team we should be looking forwards and not backwards. 

This team is capable of keeping possession and shape and with one or two quality additions offensively scoring more goals and taking on the best that Scottish football has to offer. 

 

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