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NorfolkG

Relationship between fans and players

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13 hours ago, killieblues said:

Bit of an odd analogy. Generally, a band/musician will perform the same way each time because it's "scripted". In saying that, I've seen bands booed off for being too pissed to even play. I've never given abuse to an individual player in our team, but I have to admit to vocalising being pissed off about a simple chance missed, or some shambolic play. I'm quite sure everyone on this forum has. If they can't admit that, then they are lying to themselves...

It's a clumsy analogy.

I was merely making the point that to pay money for entertainment in order to abuse the entertainers is a strange choice. 

Buying a ticket doesn't give you some sort of moral entitlement to do this. It would seem to be counter-productive if you want your team to win and succeed.

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8 hours ago, DuncD said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and not everybody will agree with that opinion. So if somebody wants to pay the club money to come in and shout negative things then that is up to them. Some people have agendas against certain players for reasons others don’t agree with and that will be the same across the footballing world. 

 

It’s still cretinous, irrespective of whether they have paid £22 to do it.

You are correct that all clubs have an element - what we should be looking at is how we can reduce/eliminate this indulgent abuse at our club.

People aren’t shouting abuse because the team or club are failing; they are doing it because they fancy doing it.

Edited by NorfolkG

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Blows my mind how little some folk know about a game they've watched all their lives.

Twice on Saturday SOD gets the ball and looks to progress and the guy behind me shouts "RIGHT O'DONNELL, GET THE HEID DOON".

what does that even mean?!

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20 minutes ago, red_dug said:

Blows my mind how little some folk know about a game they've watched all their lives.

Twice on Saturday SOD gets the ball and looks to progress and the guy behind me shouts "RIGHT O'DONNELL, GET THE HEID DOON".

what does that even mean?!

So unless you’ve played football and been coached on tactics you’ve no right to criticise any player ? 
To use a previous analogy , I appreciate great guitar playing  but I haven’t a clue how to play one . I think most people should be allowed to pass  judgement , however little they know about something , if that’s what they feel about it and have paid to watch . 

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I've heard the old "I've paid my money so I can do what I want" argument a million times, its still a crock of s**te. You pay your money to watch a game of football, not to shout abuse at anyone, if you think you are entitled to do that then I'm afraid you are just plain wrong.

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2 minutes ago, NorfolkG said:

No one has the right to abuse anyone.

So Killie fans ( or any other set of fans in the world ) should desist from “ abusing “ the other team on the park , the referee , the oppositions manager , the opposing fans . Good luck with that .

The word abuse has many connotations perhaps it needs to be defined better ? 

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I'm struggling to believe there is even arguments here.

Abusing our players it 100% unacceptable. Having a moan about them on forums or having a grumble if they make a wrong decision on the park then aye whatever, but "verbal abuse" towards our players is shocking.

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7 hours ago, mackpomm said:

With the hand wringingly 'umble entrance Uriah Heep sprang to mind but it was Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich...

 

You’ll find many defences if me on Alessio. I wasn’t calling for his head after two games. I believe. Whoever is to blame, something is no right. It needs sorting. But that’s a clever response. Well done :hurrah: 

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37 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

So Killie fans ( or any other set of fans in the world ) should desist from “ abusing “ the other team on the park , the referee , the oppositions manager , the opposing fans . Good luck with that .

The word abuse has many connotations perhaps it needs to be defined better ? 

Nah, verbal abuse at our own players is just wrong. And moronic.

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49 minutes ago, NorfolkG said:

No one has the right to abuse anyone.

 

4 minutes ago, NorfolkG said:

Nah, verbal abuse at our own players is just wrong. And moronic.

So to clarify ...it’s OK to abuse the opposition but not our own .

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4 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

 

So to clarify ...it’s OK to abuse the opposition but not our own .

No, abusing the opposition is wrong. 

Abusing your own team is wrong and moronic.  

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18 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

 

So to clarify ...it’s OK to abuse the opposition but not our own .

Cheers for clarifying something I absolutely did not say.

The sight of grown adults screaming abuse at football players is laughable full stop.

But this thread is about the fact that some - a vocal minority - think it is acceptable to shout obscenities at our own players. Foolish in the extreme.

Edited by NorfolkG

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15 minutes ago, NorfolkG said:

Cheers for clarifying something I absolutely did not say.

The sight of grown adults screaming abuse at football players is laughable full stop.

But this thread is about the fact that some - a vocal minority - think it is acceptable to shout obscenities at our own players. Foolish in the extreme.

But your previous post did not absolutely say abusing the other teams players etc was wrong but your latest one does . 

To reiterate I don’t approve of any fan abusing anyone else but to a small minority it’s how they express their feelings . I helped my dad at an old folks club and there was 2 old worthies whose sole pleasure on a Saturday was to give Stuart McLean pelters from the west stand . I asked them why ? Was it that he was no good , or not a patch on Andy King etc . The reply was that it helped them escape from their humdrum boring and rapidly deteriorating  lives for that 90 minutes. It probably also lifted their mood for a few days which was all they desired . The motives of perhaps the younger fans who hurl abuse is perhaps different but the resultant feelings are similar . As long as it doesn’t result in physical violence I’m sure football players in the main will shake off any verbal  abuse aimed at them very quickly see Kris Boyd . 

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I'm not sure Rory is as resilient a character as Kris Boyd. Rory is the most frustrating player I've supported in over fifty years of watching football. He has ability but reminds me of the Sir Robin, the not quite so brave as Sir Lancelot character in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. He 'nearly' does so much and yet produces very little. I keep hoping he's going to make some kind of breakthrough and be the player I still think he could be. I think that's why he polarises opinion so much. I can't deny he's a trier and so the issue has to be mental as opposed to physical. 

My real point is that step forward is more likely to happen if fans show some love and appreciation rather than hurling abuse at him during the games. Ultimately I think it's up to Rory to make the best of his talents but why are supposed fans making it harder than it needs to be? 

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Considering Rory has played over 200 games for Kilmarnock can you really say he's improved much. He's 26 and should be hitting the peak of his career but still looks lost in the majority of games.

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7 minutes ago, david mcbeth said:

I hope you told them they were a pair of auld w****rs?

No , but they got served last when all the chocolate biscuits were gone . ;) 

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33 minutes ago, Killiepie said:

Considering Rory has played over 200 games for Kilmarnock can you really say he's improved much. He's 26 and should be hitting the peak of his career but still looks lost in the majority of games.

Doesn't always stand out mibbe, but don't agree he looks lost.

Why the need for improvement? If you're good enough to get that many games for Killie you're better than most.

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The biggest issue here is detachment. On a forum like this you get the inevitable keyboard warriors- they even have the opportunity to hide behind a pseudonym. They are detached from the usual style of social interaction – face to face conversation. This in itself results in a kind of bravery they wouldn’t display normally.

When supporters sit in the stands they have a physical detachment from the players on the pitch and, therefore, this same bravery, afforded by the anonymity of being in a crowd this time, surfaces.

In both scenarios, the brave souls dishing out the abuse would be extremely unlikely to behave in a similar manner if standing or sitting in front of the person they are abusing. Seldom happens – pants fill up – bravado disappears – fear of a coherent discussion arising takes over – in some cases meeting the player makes them realise they are a bit of a hero – etc etc etc.

What would help would be in the players made an effort, with the club’s approval or insistence, to interact more frequently with supporters. I am not just talking about organised events such as school visits – although these are undoubtedly good initiatives. The club should encourage players to drop into the Sports Bar or hotel – before games if injured/not selected and after if playing – to interact with supporters not attending the official functions in the stadium. Get to know their customer as it were. There could even be an area behind the Moffat stand where they can sign autographs and have selfies taken from, say 5 mins after final whistle until 30 mins after final whistle.  A member of the coaching team and a squad member could also spend 5 mins with a mic in their hand talking, via Gavin doing a Q&A, to the gathered supporters in the venues.

I know I have quoted initiatives at Glasgow Warriors on here before, but this is exactly what happens at Scotstoun in public bars and at a specific area of the ground after the game for the kids. Players are committed to such duties. It doesn’t appear to cause issues with a cool-down period, so I can’t really see why footballers would be any different in that regard. It would be more an attitude issue if that was being held up as an excuse.

The players and fans therefore have a mutual respect which, in many cases, moves from unapproachable diva, maybe even hero, to good lad and a bit of a mate. Kids love it, adults enjoy it and supporters stick with shouting at the ref* rather than the guys wearing the jersey.

And before anyone says ‘Rugby’s different’ – is it? Is the Ice Hockey any different? The same detachment exists if you think about it, but barriers are actively removed. Supporters are supporters, especially kids, regardless of the sport. It’s really just that other sports make a better effort perhaps?

Just a thought.

*Not condoning ref abuse – of course ;0)

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For those who think they have a right to abuse someone because they've paid money etc, can I ask one simple question:

What does abusing Rory McKenzie on a match day achieve?

I know I'll be waiting an eternity for a logical reply... if I even get one!

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23 minutes ago, david mcbeth said:

I think a set of stocks could be installed at the Cross. Players who were not doing so great could be put in the stocks for a day of ‘fan interaction’. It is a tried and tested formula. You could spice it up by dragging them there from RP behind a horse.

Might work

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Remember going to watch Blackburn when Steve Kean was manager. 

The majority of Blackburn fans spent the entire match hurling abuse at him. 

I've hated Blackburn ever since then. 

Negativity breeds negativity. 

I'm not immune to the odd outburst myself.

Tshibola drove me crazy the way he sauntered about not really doing much except losing his man and falling over.

 

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I'm always amused when these threads crop up and people say that they never would abuse or boo our own players.

I admit that I have - often - and am unapologetic. Sometimes it was the classic "letting off steam" after a rotten week at work. Or because a player genuinely was below the standard of a professional footballer (trust me. they're used to be plenty). Or it was just the frustration of the moment building up. 

But two things. Firstly, I've never systematically singled out a player for abuse "just because". That is plain bullying.

Secondly, it was a long time ago, before I realised it was counter-productive.  

As for abusing the opposition, Steve Clarke said this before our cup tie at Ibrox in February: 

“There’s nothing wrong with going to a stadium where the atmosphere is hostile, as long as it’s restrained hostility. At the end of the day, it’s a sporting contest. I’ve got no issue going into a stadium where people are booing and shouting at you but when they start throwing things, that’s going too far.” 

He also said in the same interview that, “Everyone keeps going on about the mindless minority but surely the mindful majority should police it better.”

 

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