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Prahakillie

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What a shame:

Rangers legend Ally McCoist breaks silence on bombshell HMRC claims

McCoist was manager when Rangers suffered their financial collapse and insists the taxman must explain what happened.

Ally McCoist insists HMRC have serious questions to answer over the alleged mistake that led to the downfall of Rangers.

A report in The Times claims the taxman overcharged Rangers to the tune of £50m for their use of EBTs.

And it's believed that the revised figure would have been easily dealt with by the old company and resulted in administration and liquidation being avoided.

That led to Rangers being out of the top flight of Scottish football for four years as they made their way back in from Division Three.

McCoist was Rangers manager at the time of the collapse and told talkSPORT: "I have to say if this is the case, and I know HMRC haven't commented this morning but I imagine serious questions will have to be answered."

The Ibrox legend was also quizzed by host Alan Brazil on whether he would receive any money from the taxman as he teased: "Have you got a few quid coming back? Off to Dubai?"

McCoist joked: "I doubt it, I think I've kissed that goodbye."

According to the report in The Times, accountancy experts now believe the amount owed by the club stood at £20m, a figure it has been suggested was more manageable and one that would not have triggered administration.

The report centres around the use of EBTs during Sir David Murray's tenure as chairman of the club. The tax avoidance scheme eventually led to Murray selling the club to Craig Whyte for just £1 before the financial collapse.

Former Rangers chairman John McClelland, as quoted in the report, believes the nightmarish outcome would not have befallen the club had the tax bill been smaller.

He said: "At the time of the sale of the club in 2011, had the tax claim been at the level now being reported then in my opinion, the outcome would have been different.

"I believe there would have certainly been a much higher level of interest of acquiring it and therefore more potential buyers."

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-legend-ally-mccoist-breaks-20878116

 

"That led to Rangers being out of the top flight of Scottish football for four years as they made their way back in from Division Three."

should be: 

"That led to Rangers being liquidated and ceasing to exist. They were replaced by a new club who were generously granted league status and made their way up through the leagues from Division Three."

 

 

 

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There is a recurring theme in the culture of these people that involves blaming absolutely everybody but themselves for their own incompetence.

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How much did HMRC want from Rangers for using EBTs?

HMRC lodged a claim with BDO, the liquidator of the Rangers oldco, RFC 2012, for £94 million, with more than £74 million relating to liabilities, interest and penalties on debts. The remainder is made up of PAYE and national insurance not paid under Craig Whyte’s ownership and a separate tax case.

What has happened now?
HMRC has dropped the £24 million penalty claim on the EBT and there is an appeal over the value of the £36.6 million principal sum. If that appeal is successful, it is believed the latter figure would be reduced to closer to £20 million. It is thought likely that the £12 million interest claim will eventually be reduced by a substantial amount.

Sooo.......

Rangers didn't pay any tax whilst Whyte was in charge. That makes up £20m of the £94m.

Of the remaining £74m, HMRC has dropped a claim for £24m of penalties. So there is £50m still due. They have appealed the £36.6m tax bill, and the rest is interest on that.

So the headline suggests it was HMRCs fault that Rangers went bust, as the tax bill would only have been around £20m, which was manageable. Except even by the articles own figures, the bill would be £70m, unless BDO successfully appeal the other amounts. The rest is 'if my auntie had baws she'd be my uncle'.

Only in Scotland would this pass as journalism. Rangers went bust because they didn't pay tax. The End.

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Since it is now affordable perhaps Dave King will revive his 2015 offer: 

10th September 2015

Dave King sets out vision to pay off Rangers' oldco creditors

Rangers chairman Dave King has revealed moves to pay off the club's oldco creditors and resuscitate the in-liquidation operating company.

But the move could potentially cost the club up to £78 million.

And an informed liquidation expert told the Herald that Mr King's plan if successful would only result in the oldco either being dissolved or placed back into the hands of the previous owner, Craig Whyte.

Mr King set out his vision to take RFC 2012 plc out of liquidation and putting current club assets such as Ibrox and Murray Park into it insisting that it was "practically feasible and legally feasible".

But he admitted that would involve creditors accepting "a compromise and waive some of the debt" with an offer of 50p or 60p in the pound.

Currently creditors would only expect to get under 10p in every pound from the liquidation.

Liquidators have confirmed that the maximum debt is at around £160 million, but that depends on whether the taxman wins the so-called 'big tax' case.

It has previously been confirmed that £72m of the £94.4m owed to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) relies on the outcome of their 'big tax case' appeal.

A failure to win would cut debts owed from around £160 million to £96.8 million, according to accounts produced by liquidators BDO.

A debt of £160 million would see Rangers having to find between £62 million and £78 million on any offer of 50p or 60p with £18 million already in the oldco creditors pot.

If the HRMC lost the case, the amount expected to be needed would still be between £30 million and £40 million.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13713553.dave-king-sets-out-vision-to-pay-off-rangers-oldco-creditors/

 

 

 

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I suspect it's to take attention away from the new club haemorrhaging money like nothing else.

They just recently issued more shares, raising £2m or so. This can't last much longer.

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It seems strange they are releasing details of a report from 5 months ago. It does appear to be a distraction. 

I haven't see The Times report but it reducing any claim to BDO for 20M or so doesn't mean Rangers wouldn't have been pursued for 50M+ (including penalties and interest).

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This is all we need - having to listen to 'wronged' Rangers fans bleating on about this and why administration would have never happened to a dishonest sporting company with at least £20M debt

I'd also like the logic from the screengrab earlier; Rangers liable at £70M, but HMRC liable for them going under with only £20M!?

Thanks, but go sell crazy someplace else - were full up here.

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As usual when it comes to sevco the facts have been ignored.

HMRC have dropped the claim for £24M due to the fact they will only get a couple of pence to the £ owed and as such pursuing the claim would not be in the best interests of the tax payer as it would cost more than the total sum recoverable. They have NOT dropped the case, as claimed in the press, as they now believe it was mis-calculated!! So if they thought they could retrieve a substantial amount of what was owed they would still be going for it!!

As for appealing the other claimed £36M amount, HMRC have already got the desired result in getting EBT's outlawed so the figure they go after is irrelevant to them. Their big result was being able to go after other tax dodgers and also stop it from happening in the future.

So, as per the headline, £50M over charged is absolute garbage! But there is something heart warming that they now feel hard done to, listen out for the dog whistles as they ratchet up the rhetoric!

As usual, everybody's fault bar their own. 

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Clearly Alan Brazil and Ally McCoist aren't the people you need to get a grasp of the situation: 

"The Ibrox legend was also quizzed by host Alan Brazil on whether he would receive any money from the taxman as he teased: "Have you got a few quid coming back? Off to Dubai?"

 

Do they think Rangers are due a rebate now? 

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The media machine is in overdrive just now. 

Twisted figures saying HRMC is at fault for the old clubs demise. 

The club DEFINETLY wont have to sell assets in January to survive even tho they need funds NOW to continue to trade. 

These things after the most recent accounts being announced suggest those at the club that are responsible for the state it is in are giving the soon to be frothing hoards plenty to blame other then those responsible and their own gullibility! 

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53 minutes ago, Scooby_Doo said:

They just recently issued more shares, raising £2m or so. This can't last much longer.

Only a fifth of what is needed. Yet no players will be sold in January.

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55 minutes ago, Scooby_Doo said:

I suspect it's to take attention away from the new club haemorrhaging money like nothing else.

They just recently issued more shares, raising £2m or so. This can't last much longer.

Rangers forecast they will need another £10million in investment before the end of the season after announcing an annual loss of £11.3million.

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/sport/rangers-need-another-10million-before-end-of-current-season/

 

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Unfortunately, here is what I think will happen:

Sevco cannot continue operating like this - they will go bust. However, the SPFL rules now will not chuck them out if they are liquidated.

So they will go bust again, and continue in the top league with no debts, with a 50000 crowd and able to pay big money again.

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32 minutes ago, Scooby_Doo said:

Unfortunately, here is what I think will happen:

Sevco cannot continue operating like this - they will go bust. However, the SPFL rules now will not chuck them out if they are liquidated.

So they will go bust again, and continue in the top league with no debts, with a 50000 crowd and able to pay big money again.

Would uefa not take action over financial fair play rules? Also what moron would lend to them ever again? 

Secondly id be astonished if close brothers don't have their debt secured against say the stadium. 

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They do have it secured against something, although I can't recall what. Might be the famed Albion Car park or the other building they have.

There is no sense in securing it against Ibrox as no developer would knock it down and it isn't exactly prime real estate. It's only real use is to house a knuckle dragging horde of orcs from the late 1600s.

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Sue HMRC and other great suggestions from the Record hotline: 

The allegation Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs may have blundered into their calculation of the tax bill which sunk Rangers was always going to get the Hotline ringing.

There were a few angry bears who are demanding answers from the taxman and from further afield.

“Following the revelations that HMRC may have over-stated Rangers tax bill, many questions will now have to be answered. There must be quite a number of nervous people in football boardrooms across the country.

"Surely there has be some form of redress for the near destruction of a Scottish institution?

"What of the SFA and the clubs who tried to banish Rangers from Scottish football or the reputational damage done to the club's proud name and history.

"Rangers fans have always believed there was an agenda against their club. Following this news, which won't exactly come as a bombshell to many Bluenoses, it's difficult not to think otherwise."

 

"We need to get the bottom of this as Rangers have paid far too high a price for the EBT scandal. If it's shown it was the taxman who pushed us over the cliff because of their blunder then we should sue the life out of them."

 

 

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17 hours ago, Prahakillie said:

Sue HMRC and other great suggestions from the Record hotline: 

The allegation Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs may have blundered into their calculation of the tax bill which sunk Rangers was always going to get the Hotline ringing.

There were a few angry bears who are demanding answers from the taxman and from further afield.

“Following the revelations that HMRC may have over-stated Rangers tax bill, many questions will now have to be answered. There must be quite a number of nervous people in football boardrooms across the country.

"Surely there has be some form of redress for the near destruction of a Scottish institution?

"What of the SFA and the clubs who tried to banish Rangers from Scottish football or the reputational damage done to the club's proud name and history.

"Rangers fans have always believed there was an agenda against their club. Following this news, which won't exactly come as a bombshell to many Bluenoses, it's difficult not to think otherwise."

 

"We need to get the bottom of this as Rangers have paid far too high a price for the EBT scandal. If it's shown it was the taxman who pushed us over the cliff because of their blunder then we should sue the life out of them."

 

 

Even if this was possible (which I doubt it is), wouldn't it be the Oldco which would be suing HMRC? And as we're always told, this has nothing to do with newco, so The Rangers would never see any of this money if Oldco were to win?

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Perhaps a slightly more accurate account in today's Record, detailing how HMRC have simply dropped claims for penalties and interest in the hope of getting some money back: 

Rangers stars have £70 million wiped off EBT tax bill by HMRC

Former Rangers stars were being chased for £100m but that bill has shrunk down to £24m.

Anxious former Rangers stars could be spared from financial ruin after the tax man agreed to write off about £70million of employee benefit trust cash.

The Daily Record can today reveal that a huge cast of Ibrox old boys have been told by HMRC that tens of millions of pounds worth of outstanding penalties and interest accrued on their controversial payment scheme have been cut as part of an agreement with liquidators BDO.

It has been claimed the authorities helped tip the club into the financial meltdown of 2012 by inflating the potential bill for the use of the offshore trust scheme by as much as £50million – creating a liability so crippling that it scared away all potential new owners with the exception of the catastrophic Craig Whyte.

Conflicting claims insist HMRC have made no such admission and have only agreed to adjust their numbers to help smooth through the legal process which began more than four years ago when oldco Rangers went under.

But the news should come as a welcome relief to the long list of EBT recipients who have been told they must only now stump up enough to cover the money the Supreme Court ruled should have been paid in income tax.

It was believed the list – made up of former players, coaches, managers and directors – were being chased for close to £100million.

Now that sum has come down to about £24million.

Former Rangers chairman Sir David Murray championed the EBT scheme between 2001 and 2009, paying out £47.6million to staff, players and himself.

Critics say it gave the club a massive advantage over rivals by enabling them to sign players they wouldn’t otherwise have been able to afford.

Murray rolled the scheme out across the club – from big-name stars such as former captain Barry Ferguson and all-time record £12million signing Tore Andre Flo to managers Dick Advocaat and Alex McLeish.

Murray also received payments to the value of more than £6million, which means he owes £3million in tax.

The taxman started looking into Rangers’ EBTs in 2010, while Murray was looking to sell his controlling interest in the club.

In 2012, new owner Whyte took Rangers into administration after failing to pay a separate £9million in PAYE and National Insurance.

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/rangers-stars-70-million-wiped-20884231

 

 

 

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