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6 minutes ago, KillieBus said:

Irish is taught in Irish schools so any Irish person moving on to study languages is at an immediate advantage over a Scottish child doing the same type of course. Anyone wanting to move into European interpretation needs three languages.

A Scottish student would need to pick up two foreign languages against the Irish needing one.

You get extra credit for studying a subject in the Irish language than for doing the same subject in English.

 

My mate's kid is in school in Holland and she is studying 1 or 2 subjects in English rather than Dutch again for extra grades.

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I learned a wee bit o Spanish to help with work, and downloaded the dualingo app to give Gaelic a go.

I'm happy they added it, and that it's making a comeback, bah humbug to any objectors as it clearly makes no difference to your life one way or the other except for giving you something else to moan about.

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Apparently Whitehurst Park primary in Kilwinning are opening a Gaelic Medium Primary Education unit with a new post advertised with a salary of almost £44,000 pa. My grandson who is autistic goes to Whitehurst Park and we were told that NAC couldn't afford a speech therapist for him and other children with speech difficulties in North Ayrshire. It doesn't seem to me that they have their priorities right, but maybe speaking Gaelic will be essential in Scotland in years to come. 

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On 12/20/2019 at 12:23 PM, RayD said:

I learned a wee bit o Spanish to help with work, and downloaded the dualingo app to give Gaelic a go.

Supposedly people in Northern Celtic Spain can converse with Gaelic speakers to a small degree due to some commonality. 

 

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On 12/15/2019 at 12:54 AM, KillieBus said:

Irish is taught in Irish schools so any Irish person moving on to study languages is at an immediate advantage over a Scottish child doing the same type of course. Anyone wanting to move into European interpretation needs three languages.

A Scottish student would need to pick up two foreign languages against the Irish needing one.

I'm a fluent Irish speaker and a lot of Irish people have at least a basic grasp of conversational Irish.  People often resent having to learn it at school, but many of the same people love being able to speak the language as adults, especially if they move abroad.  It can be convenient for covert communication in tricky situations on foreign holidays, or getting the street sellers to bugger off. We all have different names too and at primary school children's names are on the register in Irish, the same goes for Gaelic games for all ages under 18 - i.e. your player registration is in Irish (Seán O'hUallacháin in my case).

The EU translator thing only became an advantage after Irish became an official EU language in 2007, but all official documents in Ireland are published in Irish because it is the official language of the state, and you need Leaving Cert level (roughly equivalent to Highers) to matriculate at most universities in Ireland (or at least that was the case when I went to university). However, I have never needed or used it for work.

Personally, I know hundreds of people with whom I have never spoken anything but Irish, and I even knew some people who never learned English. 

It's very similar to Gaelic and so it's possible to have a cross-language conversation; I listened to two old ladies have a conversation about me (wondering aloud about who I was and what I was doing) when our flight to Barra was diverted to Benbecula because of fog.  They were pretty embarrassed when I answered their questions.

On the issue of modern words, e.g. microwave oven, because Irish is an official language, there is a state body that regulates it and so new Irish language equivalents are introduced whenever necessary. However, they don't tend to be silly made up words.  People seem to forget that microwave oven as an object or phrase didn't exist in English before the invention of the microwave oven and it is just a description of what it is; the Irish equivalent is oigheann micreathonnach. Micreathonn is not a made up word, it literally means microwave, micrea being directly equivalent to the prefix micro and ton being a wave. Believe it or not, the Welsh do the same, the whole popty ping thing is just bulls**t.  That said, some people drop English words into conversations because they just don't know the Irish word, but people also use Irish words in English conversations.

Either way, I love the language and I 'd love my kids to learn Gaelic. 

(PS When I say Gaelic, I mean Scots Gaelic, Irish is Gaeilge to me).

 

 

Edited by CSI Kilmarnock

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On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 11:07 AM, CSI Kilmarnock said:

Either way, I love the language and I 'd love my kids to learn Gaelic. 

I love Scots Gaelic and have invested a wee bit of time in it. This started off for cultural reasons as many place names, hills rivers and so on have Gaelic roots in Scotland. Also, learning another language is really helpful in letting you understand the structure and or lack of it in your own native language.

In contrast to the howls of protest I sometimes find on here I am quite happy watching football on Alba with Gaelic commentary in the background. I have also heard that it helps one "get on" in education and government posts if you have any Gaelic at all.

The biggest problem I have is with native speakers seeing it as a "secret code". Getting upset when people overhearing them can understand them and pretending that they cant understand when learners try their best. They are not doing their language any favours longer term. Contrast their attitude with French speakers who go out of their way to help if a non native French speaker gives it their best shot.

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On 11/27/2019 at 7:29 PM, Pompey Exile said:

What I've learnt from Alba is "Keeli-marnock" is Kilmarnock and a cross seems to be "Jack in the box"

"Keeli-marnock"

Isn't that Algonquin for "the good land"?

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I would rather the money be spent teaching our kids BSL, where the benefits would be far reaching across the globe for people who had no choice as to their need for BSL.

Anyone wanting to learn to speak a language which died 300 years ago in mainline Scotland should’ve able to access it privately.

For NAC to award a role on a salary of £44k coupled with other costs seems rather ridiculous when crucial care is being cut again for people in need.

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7 hours ago, killie billies pal said:

I would rather the money be spent teaching our kids BSL, where the benefits would be far reaching across the globe for people who had no choice as to their need for BSL.

Anyone wanting to learn to speak a language which died 300 years ago in mainline Scotland should’ve able to access it privately.

For NAC to award a role on a salary of £44k coupled with other costs seems rather ridiculous when crucial care is being cut again for people in need.

Tell that to the communities where garlic is still their first language.

Oh and while were at it, I agree about signing being taught but theres two types, and oh yes well done for trying to do the unions work for them and stamp out anything that isnt classed as British.

Anyone remember the campaign a few years back to remove local dialects???

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20 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

Tell that to the communities where garlic is still their first language.

 Everyone should be fluent in Weedgie, Garlic, Mandarins and Spinach.

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1 hour ago, Beaker71 said:

Tell that to the communities where garlic is still their first language.

They don't want it taught in schools more widely. They want to keep their wee secret code secret.

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3 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

Tell that to the communities where garlic is still their first language.

Oh and while were at it, I agree about signing being taught but theres two types, and oh yes well done for trying to do the unions work for them and stamp out anything that isnt classed as British.

Anyone remember the campaign a few years back to remove local dialects???

Not sure about Paragraph 1, when it is clear that in areas where the majority speak Gaelic most are unable to read, write or decipher it in it’s written form.

Para2 , what is this second Sign Language?, as a guide for Deafblind SCOTLAND my wife was taught BSL, it’s great that she can use it wherever we go in the world too.

Para3, Nope sorry cannot recall this.

Scottish Government throwing £27 million at a gimmick in the current state of affairs is quite frankly playing to the gallery.

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49 minutes ago, killie billies pal said:

 

Scottish Government throwing £27 million at a gimmick in the current state of affairs is quite frankly playing to the gallery.

Rule britannia eh, lets all rid the masses of their culture, language and assimilate them into greater englandshire.

Also the campaign for the queens english as it was was headed by Trevir McDonald and was set up by hilda and her government.  It literally tried in schools to rid everyone if any dialect and language.  For the benefit of doubt in Scotland we speak  and anglicised version of Scots, English, Gaelic, Doric, etc.  We do not have a dialect we have various languages.  Brummy or Yorkshire are neither, they are dialects of english.  

27 million for me is worth it to defend, protect and keep alive what makes us Scots and Gaels.  This isnt about gimmicks it's about preservation of what makes us different and is our heritage and culture.  Now 8 billion to revamp a palace in Westminster or 500 million to make a f**king bell go bong ...... that's playing to the gallery.

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36 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

Rule britannia eh, lets all rid the masses of their culture, language and assimilate them into greater englandshire.

Also the campaign for the queens english as it was was headed by Trevir McDonald and was set up by hilda and her government.  It literally tried in schools to rid everyone if any dialect and language.  For the benefit of doubt in Scotland we speak  and anglicised version of Scots, English, Gaelic, Doric, etc.  We do not have a dialect we have various languages.  Brummy or Yorkshire are neither, they are dialects of english.  

27 million for me is worth it to defend, protect and keep alive what makes us Scots and Gaels.  This isnt about gimmicks it's about preservation of what makes us different and is our heritage and culture.  Now 8 billion to revamp a palace in Westminster or 500 million to make a f**king bell go bong ...... that's playing to the gallery.

Learning Gaelic doesn't make you any more or less a Scot than somebody who doesn't speak it. By all means retain it in the areas that speak Gaelic but why lowland Scotland where I can't recall any of my grandparents even talking about the language. I would rather our children be taught French, Spanish, Italian, or German, so that we can converse with our European neighbours when we rejoin the EU. 

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15 minutes ago, Wrangodog said:

I would rather our children be taught French, Spanish, Italian, or German, so that we can converse with our European neighbours when we rejoin the EU. 

If you spoke English, Spanish and Standard (Mandarin) Chinese, you could speak to about 3 billion people - although probably not all of them at once!

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1 hour ago, Beaker71 said:

Rule britannia eh, lets all rid the masses of their culture, language and assimilate them into greater englandshire.

Also the campaign for the queens english as it was was headed by Trevir McDonald and was set up by hilda and her government.  It literally tried in schools to rid everyone if any dialect and language.  For the benefit of doubt in Scotland we speak  and anglicised version of Scots, English, Gaelic, Doric, etc.  We do not have a dialect we have various languages.  Brummy or Yorkshire are neither, they are dialects of english.  

27 million for me is worth it to defend, protect and keep alive what makes us Scots and Gaels.  This isnt about gimmicks it's about preservation of what makes us different and is our heritage and culture.  Now 8 billion to revamp a palace in Westminster or 500 million to make a f**king bell go bong ...... that's playing to the gallery.

1. Oh come on, please.

2. I don’t recall anything about this policy to have everyone speaking the Queens English as you refer to it, I do wish that my country’s folk however would stop living in the past so much whilst claiming to be a forward thinking modern nation.

3. Kind of relates to my feelings about living in the past, my thoughts were that the EU was a way to rid ourselves of “Countries”, “Origins” yet you say that you would rather spend £27million to keep alive our historic and cultural Scottish and Gaelic roots, me? I’d rather we employed 13,000 new nurses, built new civic centres, indoor sports facilities to encourage activity, more Police on the streets.

Thats the trouble with democracy, we have to go with what the majority want all the time, not just when it suits.

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7 minutes ago, killie billies pal said:

1. Oh come on, please.

2. I don’t recall anything about this policy to have everyone speaking the Queens English as you refer to it, I do wish that my country’s folk however would stop living in the past so much whilst claiming to be a forward thinking modern nation.

3. Kind of relates to my feelings about living in the past, my thoughts were that the EU was a way to rid ourselves of “Countries”, “Origins” yet you say that you would rather spend £27million to keep alive our historic and cultural Scottish and Gaelic roots, me? I’d rather we employed 13,000 new nurses, built new civic centres, indoor sports facilities to encourage activity, more Police on the streets.

Thats the trouble with democracy, we have to go with what the majority want all the time, not just when it suits.

Scotland spends about £250-500m a year on nuclear weapons man!  £27m a drop in the ocean by comparison. Even if a single person learns Gaelic, it’ll still be more useful than a nuke that never gets used.

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6 minutes ago, RAG said:

Scotland spends about £250-500m a year on nuclear weapons man!  £27m a drop in the ocean by comparison. Even if a single person learns Gaelic, it’ll still be more useful than a nuke that never gets used.

That isn't an either/or situation, unless we're independent that money is already spent. Gaelic is a middle class fantasy when we have food banks throughout Ayrshire and other deprived areas in Scotland. 

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16 minutes ago, RAG said:

Scotland spends about £250-500m a year on nuclear weapons man!  £27m a drop in the ocean by comparison. Even if a single person learns Gaelic, it’ll still be more useful than a nuke that never gets used.

we could spend more calling it the "urchraichean niùclasach" programme. 

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10 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

That isn't an either/or situation, unless we're independent that money is already spent. Gaelic is a middle class fantasy when we have food banks throughout Ayrshire and other deprived areas in Scotland. 

Even if you describe Gaelic through the lens of the British class system, we’ll still spend hundreds of times more £ on nukes, HS2 and crossrail, than we spend on preserving traditional Scottish culture.  

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9 hours ago, RAG said:

Even if you describe Gaelic through the lens of the British class system, we’ll still spend hundreds of times more £ on nukes, HS2 and crossrail, than we spend on preserving traditional Scottish culture.  

So exactly what does learning Gaelic give children in North Ayrshire ? Can they eat it ? Does it keep their home dry when it is damp ? Will it give them assistance if they have special needs ? How far back do you take it before it becomes “traditional" ? My ancestors came from Ireland, so should my traditional language actually be Irish Gaelic ?  If we could opt out of the nukes and the other projects that don't affect us then there could be money available for Gaelic projects, but at the moment we can't and learning Gaelic should be at the bottom of any priorities with a limited budget. 

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44 minutes ago, Wrangodog said:

So exactly what does learning Gaelic give children in North Ayrshire ? Can they eat it ? Does it keep their home dry when it is damp ? Will it give them assistance if they have special needs ? How far back do you take it before it becomes “traditional" ? My ancestors came from Ireland, so should my traditional language actually be Irish Gaelic ?  If we could opt out of the nukes and the other projects that don't affect us then there could be money available for Gaelic projects, but at the moment we can't and learning Gaelic should be at the bottom of any priorities with a limited budget. 

I think you”re confusing the words traditional with indigenous. Irish and Scots garlic are mostly the same thing, with some divergence between the two about 500 years ago, so it depends how far back your Irish ancestry goes I guess? In N.I. they’re even demanding (in addition to an Irish language act) an ULster Scots language act, which isn’t even a real language, merely a dialect.  Same in Wales, except on a greater level - in both participation and funding.  If we don't preserve Scotlands indigenous culture and heritage, then who will ?  Giving up on Gaelic, or not providing support, would put us out of step with neighbouring countries.  As a dyslexic, when I went to school, Strathclyde region didnt even recognise special needs, so i fully understand where you’re coming from there. As for usefulness, Chinese, Spanish, German, possibly French are undeniably more useful languages to learn - but good luck taking higher Chinese in the Scottish education system. Scotland will pour more money this week into HS2, linking 2 cities many hundreds of miles from Scotland, than we’ll spend on Gaelic in a decade.

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1 hour ago, Wrangodog said:

So exactly what does learning Gaelic give children in North Ayrshire ? Can they eat it ? Does it keep their home dry when it is damp ? Will it give them assistance if they have special needs ? How far back do you take it before it becomes “traditional" ?

Can they eat it ? No.

Does it keep their home dry when it is damp ? No.

Will it give them assistance if they have special needs ? No.

How far back do you take it before it becomes “traditional" ?  A question in the how long is a piece of string category.

OK so far I am empathising with where you are coming from but let me ask you another set of questions

Can you eat analytic geometry ? .

Does analytic geometry keep their home dry when it is damp ?.

Will analytic geometry give them assistance if they have special needs ?

So why do we teach children in North Ayrshire analytic geometry, or history, or geography.

Largely, education is about teaching people to think, not about what you are teach  them. Teaching children Gaelic helps them to understand language structure better and in theory learn how to use English more effectively and more easily learn other languages. It was only after I did a bit of French I discovered the adjective dos not have to come before the noun and when I did Gaelic I discovered the verb does not have to come between the subject and the object. (And that there is no absolute necessity for a word for Yes or a word for no but that's another story).

I agree there is a case to be made that there is more economic advantage using Spanish or French as a foreign language but in terms of a holistic approach to learning, Gaelic is all around you in the place names etc.   

 

 

 

 

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After the summer I'll be sending my son to the gaelic school in  Kilmarnock. 

Not because I'm middle class.

Not because of history.

But because it's the best performing school in this area and it happens to be in our catchment area.

If he can learn an other language at the same time as gaining a 'normal' education then even  better. 

 

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