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Andy

Scaremongering or Not, Corona Virus = Nae Killie

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My medic friend gave this synopsis from an article in the lancet re ibuprofen and blood pressure and heart pills 

The risks involved with ibuprofen has nothing to do with the “anti inflammatory action” preventing the “ fighting of the virus” . Ibuprofen,  ACEinhibitors and ARB , medications for the treatment of high blood pressure cause an up scaling of ACE-2 receptors in lung , kidney and gut tissue , these receptors happen to be the receptors that Covid-19 binds to .  The use of these drugs is associated with a significantly increased risk of serious/fatal infection . Virtually all diabetic/hypertensive ( high blood pressure ) and cardiac patients will be on these these tablets . 
 

Plain English ...the covid -19 virus prevents these medications working efficiently and that’s the reason these people are at risk from this virus 

ACE inhibitors examples of .. perindopril ,ramipril , quinapril 

ARB examples of ... candesartan , Losartan ,azisartan 

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44 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

My medic friend gave this synopsis from an article in the lancet re ibuprofen and blood pressure and heart pills 

The risks involved with ibuprofen has nothing to do with the “anti inflammatory action” preventing the “ fighting of the virus” . Ibuprofen,  ACEinhibitors and ARB , medications for the treatment of high blood pressure cause an up scaling of ACE-2 receptors in lung , kidney and gut tissue , these receptors happen to be the receptors that Covid-19 binds to .  The use of these drugs is associated with a significantly increased risk of serious/fatal infection . Virtually all diabetic/hypertensive ( high blood pressure ) and cardiac patients will be on these these tablets . 
 

Plain English ...the covid -19 virus prevents these medications working efficiently and that’s the reason these people are at risk from this virus 

ACE inhibitors examples of .. perindopril ,ramipril , quinapril 

ARB examples of ... candesartan , Losartan ,azisartan 

The COVID-19 virus binds to the ACE 2 receptor in the lungs. There's a hypothesis that people on the drugs you mention do worse from Corona due to an increase in these receptors.  The virus binds to these and may cause an increased infection severity. 

We don't know whether they do worse independent of the fact that they are the same people who have high blood pressure, diabetes etc. 

At present there are no recommendations that people stop medication. The GP visits to assess for this are presumably counter productive as it would involve an increased risk of infection and the use of an already stretched resource. 

There are a lot of theories flying around that even doctors have bought into. There has been insufficient time and an insufficient understanding of the virus for any of them to be particularly credible. 

If I think that there is any worthwhile advice beyond washing your hands, staying at home and avoiding public transport and at risk people, then I'll post on here. 

Edited by fraz65

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Just now, fraz65 said:

The COVID-19 virus binds to the ACE 2 receptor in the lungs. There's a hypothesis that people on the drugs you mention do worse from Corona due to an increase in these receptors.  

We don't know whether they do worse independent of the fact that they are the same people who have high blood pressure, diabetes etc. 

At present there are no recommendations that people stop medication. The GP visits to assess for this are presumably counter productive as it would involve an increased risk of infection and the use of an already stretched resource. 

 

I’m regurgitating from the lancet , you’re at the coal face , I’ll bow to your on site knowledge 

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22 minutes ago, mitch14 said:

Good to see the players get involved in this. Insert "where has this been from him..." chat here... https://twitter.com/Niko_Hamalainen/status/1240382768577687552?s=19

Now the footballs postponed, Niko should challenge Scott Brown and the rest of the SPFL to a twitter bog roll showboat showdown.  Might be the best bit of entertainment in the rest of 2020..

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Reading the first couple of pages of this thread from only 2 weeks ago is fun. I wonder what the next 2 weeks has in store.

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2 minutes ago, Lroy said:

Reading the first couple of pages of this thread from only 2 weeks ago is fun. I wonder what the next 2 weeks has in store.

A wee Game of Chess??

the_seventh_seal.jpg

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7 minutes ago, RAG said:

A wee Game of Chess??

the_seventh_seal.jpg

You sunk my battleship...

mcdbian_ec008-ef18052c-1bb1-4024-a258-f2

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29 minutes ago, Lroy said:

Reading the first couple of pages of this thread from only 2 weeks ago is fun. I wonder what the next 2 weeks has in store.

I did that as well. 

It's hard to believe that was only two weeks ago. 

I'd love to be wise after the event now, but even then I wasn't sure that games would be called off. 

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Australian Rules Football going ahead tonight at the MCG. 

You'll be able to get a live stream online if you have sports withdrawal. 

It's a fairly easy game to pick up. My local side Richmond Tigers are playing. Normally this would attract 80,000 but playing behind closed doors. Even that is very controversial. 

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At the moment all the emphasis is rightly on the medical side of the virus, but there is also the massive social impact caused by locking people in their homes. Not just the sick and elderly, but the millions of people working from home. Some people enjoy their job but for many the social interaction is the only thing that makes work tolerable. A single person might have no friends outside of their work colleagues, and now they get up, switch their laptop on and that's it. It's easy to say that the elderly shouldn't be used for child minding, but many won't have any choice, it's either that or not working with the financial consequences that that brings. How does a parent work from home and look after their children at the same time ? Even with well behaved children it will be difficult, then you have the children whose parents are separated or divorced and the decisions that have to be made over their care when there is no schools to go to.  Never mind, BoJo and Swinney are going to find a solution to the forthcoming exams and provide facilities for "key workers" by Monday. 

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5 minutes ago, Wrangodog said:

At the moment all the emphasis is rightly on the medical side of the virus, but there is also the massive social impact caused by locking people in their homes. Not just the sick and elderly, but the millions of people working from home. Some people enjoy their job but for many the social interaction is the only thing that makes work tolerable. A single person might have no friends outside of their work colleagues, and now they get up, switch their laptop on and that's it. It's easy to say that the elderly shouldn't be used for child minding, but many won't have any choice, it's either that or not working with the financial consequences that that brings. How does a parent work from home and look after their children at the same time ? Even with well behaved children it will be difficult, then you have the children whose parents are separated or divorced and the decisions that have to be made over their care when there is no schools to go to.  Never mind, BoJo and Swinney are going to find a solution to the forthcoming exams and provide facilities for "key workers" by Monday. 

You are absolutely 100% right in everything you say. All government decisions seem to have been taken based on an algorithm to minimise the spread of Covid-19.

I have no idea regarding how much consideration has been given to:

a) the impact on peoples mental health
b) the sustainability of the current advice without "enforcement"
c) the economic impact at a personal level
d) the impact on the national / global economy

The one thing that is crystal clear to me is that you cannot successfully implement such a disease spread algorithm for 3 to 6 months without some consideration to the above.

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1 minute ago, gdevoy said:

You are absolutely 100% right in everything you say. All government decisions seem to have been taken based on an algorithm to minimise the spread of Covid-19.

I have no idea regarding how much consideration has been given to:

a) the impact on peoples mental health
b) the sustainability of the current advice without "enforcement"
c) the economic impact at a personal level
d) the impact on the national / global economy

The one thing that is crystal clear to me is that you cannot successfully implement such a disease spread algorithm for 3 to 6 months without some consideration to the above.

Exactly this. You can only pause the economy for so long before people need to get back out working. 

The jobs we end up doing may be a lot different to what we do now..... 

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15 hours ago, Lroy said:

Reading the first couple of pages of this thread from only 2 weeks ago is fun. I wonder what the next 2 weeks has in store.

Reading back two weeks ago I am fairly happy with my performance, lol.

Others were way off the mark though........or were they ??

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57 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

Likewise.

:)Just been down to the Heartlands hozzy in Birmingham. It's usually heaving but very empty apart from staff and a few others. No visitors allowed. Very good point by Wrangodog about mental health. Heard two nurses ranting not having PPE so acknowledge Scooters point about me unblocking my nose re Jeremy Hunt albeit stand by my view he asked the right questions culpable or not.interesting Germany having significantly less deaths so far than UK but having been impacted earlier. 

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USA have are using there battle ships as hospitals and will be manned by service medics .They have also assigned service medics to hospitals .Maybe Johnson should do that here .I don't know the numbers of qualified forces medics the UK has but every little helps 

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45 minutes ago, Killiepies said:

USA have are using there battle ships as hospitals and will be manned by service medics .They have also assigned service medics to hospitals .Maybe Johnson should do that here .I don't know the numbers of qualified forces medics the UK has but every little helps 

I heard an ex army guy suggesting the UK forces dont have the resources or numbers like the USA have.  Also a lot of army medics in wartime, are reservists that work in the NHS.

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1 hour ago, Shropshire_killie said:

 re Jeremy Hunt albeit stand by my view he asked the right questions culpable or not.

....  What a shame his first name had not been Mike. ..... Just because he is a grade A, entitled, smarmy twat doesn't mean he is thick (in contrast to the Eton clown) . As the guy on the Godfather says, never allow yourself to "hate" your enemy, it interferes with you judgement. 

We are being moved over to home working in accordance with the government's advice. The stuff I have seen indicates this process could take the best part of a month to complete. That tells me they aint expecting things to change any time soon.

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54 minutes ago, RAG said:

I heard an ex army guy suggesting the UK forces dont have the resources or numbers like the USA have.  Also a lot of army medics in wartime, are reservists that work in the NHS.

A lot of people work for the military in the US because there is no welfare state.

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1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

A lot of people work for the military in the US because there is no welfare state.

The US are sending 3 ships and have a population of 250m with no universal health care.  Not sure the NHS could take on 3 battleships on the high seas, but I’d rather have the NHS in a ‘war’ against an enemy like a virus!

 

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1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

....  What a shame his first name had not been Mike. ..... Just because he is a grade A, entitled, smarmy twat doesn't mean he is thick (in contrast to the Eton clown) . As the guy on the Godfather says, never allow yourself to "hate" your enemy, it interferes with you judgement. 

We are being moved over to home working in accordance with the government's advice. The stuff I have seen indicates this process could take the best part of a month to complete. That tells me they aint expecting things to change any time soon.

Big bonus gdevoy. You can go to your work in just your pants :)

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