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Reality check 4 points off bottom this time next week

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4 hours ago, KillieBus said:

I think things are a good bit more subtle that a direct comparison of points gained and lost under AA and AD.

AA - inherited a strong team full of confident players, used to winning and with real momentum going in the right direction.

AD - inherited a team that had effectively fallen apart, couldn't score a goal, couldn't get a win and confidence was shot.

I'm not looking to blame either manager for where we currently are, as I feel sorry for AA as I think he struggled with just about everything (language, getting ideas across, being the main man rather than a coach, working in a smaller club environment, not being able to see and accept the players for what they were and could offer etc.) and AD has had the unenviable task of turning the direction of travel (down the way) around and stabilise the team to squeeze out the points required to get us safe. Saturday was the perfect example of a group of players that got worried about losing the point that was theirs to take home never mind taking three home. Confidence is key in football.

For what it's worth, my opinion is that I would rather have AD in charge than AA as he had clearly lost the dressing room (rightly or wrongly, players to blame or not players to blame - the number one thing as manager is not to lose the dressing room) and we will need everyone pulling together to keep clear of trouble.

AA inherited a squad that was workmanlike and had most of the quality ripped out of it. Mulumbu, Jones, Bachmann, Stewart, Taylor, Tshibola would’ve made a huge difference to our season. 

Edited by Zorro

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2 hours ago, skygod said:

To be accurate, I think he said he would have a decision to make if he was offered the job.

But think on this, and BB saying that AD has his vote for permanent manager, "if he wants to stay".

AD must feel he has the board eating out of his hand; more balls in his hand than Joe Marler in a scrum. 

It's extraordinary behaviour over a manager with an indifferent record. What's the score? Do they just really like the guy on a personal level? Enjoy being seen as an equal opportunities flag bearer? See something in him which many of us are missing?

I doubt that Billy Bowie Special Projects tell suppliers they can have the job if they want it, without having undergone a tender process. 

 

I should have said I was paraphrasing but it reminds me greatly of the attitude expressed by McCulloch before he became manager. Seems to me he lacks confidence in his own abilities and that's a poor attribute for a manager, especially in sport.

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13 minutes ago, Zorro said:

AA inherited a squad that was workmanlike and had most of the quality ripped out of it. Mulumbu, Jones, Bachmann, Stewart, Taylor, Stewart, Tshibola would’ve made a huge difference in our season. 

Spot on.

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32 minutes ago, KillieBus said:

 

For what it's worth, my opinion is that I would rather have AD in charge than AA as he had clearly lost the dressing room (rightly or wrongly, players to blame or not players to blame - the number one thing as manager is not to lose the dressing room) and we will need everyone pulling together to keep clear of trouble.

That may be true but if AD "has" the dressing room, then his points tally is even more worrying.

Jig never lost the dressing room either. Didn't mean he wasn't a poor manager.

Fine sack AA if that's the case he's lost the dressing room but giving the job to AD through default now, after a failed trial period so far (it is a failure, I defy anyone to argue against that) is bonkers.

You hear AD after every defeat and it gives you zero confidence that he could motivate players to win a do or die game when the chips are down.

Edited by Squirrelhumper

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Just now, Squirrelhumper said:

That may be true but if AD "has" the dressing room, then his points tally is even more worrying.

AD has the dressing room and is still failing.

You need longer to reverse the direction of travel. I think he needs more time. The rest of the season will provide that time.

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1 minute ago, KillieBus said:

You need longer to reverse the direction of travel. I think he needs more time. The rest of the season will provide that time.

He should be at least be able to pick up some points between now and then as we'll be playing the dross.

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19 minutes ago, Zorro said:

AA inherited a squad that was workmanlike and had most of the quality ripped out of it. Mulumbu, Jones, Bachmann, Stewart, Taylor, Stewart, Tshibola would’ve made a huge difference in our season. 

That's true, wouldn't argue otherwise, but the squad still had a winning mentality and that was lost over his tenure.

AA also did nothing to improve the squad. Again, I will go back to what I think are reasons for it, wet behind the ears in management, not the same support structure in place, not what he would have expected in terms of player recruitment - but he was still the manager and needs to carry the can.

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3 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

He should be at least be able to pick up some points between now and then as we'll be playing the dross.

And if he doesn't he won't deserve the job (and I have a fear that we actually play better and more effectively against the better teams).

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Hopefully we can get the win on Saturday which should be enough to see us safe barring some strange results of the teams below us 

The Board must then get the next permanent Managerial choice right ----and get a long term process in place including the correct summer player recruitment to take us forward as a club

This season --on the pitch --will be looked back on as one where the Board failed to capitalise on the previous success---- and also will be seen as a season of wasted opportunities starting way back last summer ----with both first delaying the Managerial recruitment and then the problems that then followed from the choice made --- and fact the poor player recruitment will lead to yet another summer of upheaval in the squad

The board have got a lot of things right off the pitch ---but making another wrong appointment as Manager could nullify a lot of that in most supporters eyes

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11 minutes ago, Scouser2 said:

Hopefully we can get the win on Saturday which should be enough to see us safe barring some strange results of the teams below us 

The Board must then get the next permanent Managerial choice right ----and get a long term process in place including the correct summer player recruitment to take us forward as a club

This season --on the pitch --will be looked back on as one where the Board failed to capitalise on the previous success---- and also will be seen as a season of wasted opportunities starting way back last summer ----with both first delaying the Managerial recruitment and then the problems that then followed from the choice made --- and fact the poor player recruitment will lead to yet another summer of upheaval in the squad

The board have got a lot of things right off the pitch ---but making another wrong appointment as Manager could nullify a lot of that in most supporters eyes

I wouldnt hold my breath with this board

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The minute we’re mathematically safe I’d advertise the managers job , Dyer can apply if he thinks he’s up to it . The main difference between now and last summer is that Fowler’s football experience should add something to the interview process , hopefully . 
As an attendee at the AGM I got the feeling that they’re not bosom buddies and JF won’t favour Dyer too much 

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2 hours ago, Bonbon19 said:

The minute we’re mathematically safe I’d advertise the managers job , Dyer can apply if he thinks he’s up to it . The main difference between now and last summer is that Fowler’s football experience should add something to the interview process , hopefully . 
As an attendee at the AGM I got the feeling that they’re not bosom buddies and JF won’t favour Dyer too much 

 

Edited by killie1961
cancelled

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3 hours ago, KillieBus said:

That's true, wouldn't argue otherwise, but the squad still had a winning mentality and that was lost over his tenure.

AA also did nothing to improve the squad. Again, I will go back to what I think are reasons for it, wet behind the ears in management, not the same support structure in place, not what he would have expected in terms of player recruitment - but he was still the manager and needs to carry the can.

I’m not sure I’d agree this squad had a winning mentality. I think they were part of a squad who believed they could beat anyone, but that’s not the same thing. It can’t have been easy for many of them to accept that they hadn’t contributed as much to our third place finish as they thought they had. It would be much easier for them to look round for someone else to blame. The foreign manager with the funny accent, the defender who’d taken your pals place, the keeper who doesn’t go out running...all of them were thrown under the bus by players who should’ve been good enough to beat Welsh part-timers even with the worst manager in the world.  

And why would AA need to improve the squad, if as you claim it was a squad with a winning mentality? Why did results improve after he’d spent more time working on their shape. You can’t have it both ways. 

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3 hours ago, Bonbon19 said:

The minute we’re mathematically safe I’d advertise the managers job , Dyer can apply if he thinks he’s up to it . The main difference between now and last summer is that Fowler’s football experience should add something to the interview process , hopefully . 
As an attendee at the AGM I got the feeling that they’re not bosom buddies and JF won’t favour Dyer too much 

We should be putting our feelers for a new manager now. AD has had his interview. He’s failed spectacularly. 

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14 minutes ago, Zorro said:

I’m not sure I’d agree this squad had a winning mentality. I think they were part of a squad who believed they could beat anyone, but that’s not the same thing. It can’t have been easy for many of them to accept that they hadn’t contributed as much to our third place finish as they thought they had. It would be much easier for them to look round for someone else to blame. The foreign manager with the funny accent, the defender who’d taken your pals place, the keeper who doesn’t go out running...all of them were thrown under the bus by players who should’ve been good enough to beat Welsh part-timers even with the worst manager in the world.  

And why would AA need to improve the squad, if as you claim it was a squad with a winning mentality? Why did results improve after he’d spent more time working on their shape. You can’t have it both ways. 

All managers should look to improve a squad. Given it was light on numbers and had lost some quality, why would you question his need to improve the squad?

From what I saw, results improved after we went back to the basic shape that had proved itself the season before.

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7 minutes ago, KillieBus said:

All managers should look to improve a squad. Given it was light on numbers and had lost some quality, why would you question his need to improve the squad?

From what I saw, results improved after we went back to the basic shape that had proved itself the season before.

Of course managers should try to strengthen their squad, but in our position it should be after they’ve had time to assess what they’ve got. For instance bringing in a CB when we had one of the best defensive records in the league would be a waste of resources imo. Dyer thought otherwise and look how that’s working out. A creative midfielder would certainly have been a higher priority on my shopping list. 

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14 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Of course managers should try to strengthen their squad, but in our position it should be after they’ve had time to assess what they’ve got. For instance bringing in a CB when we had one of the best defensive records in the league would be a waste of resources imo. Dyer thought otherwise and look how that’s working out. A creative midfielder would certainly have been a higher priority on my shopping list. 

Alessio also brought in a centre half (like Dyer, he had to, as a centre half had left) to a good defence. He also didn't bring in a creative midfielder - they are hard to get.

Rules for some but not for others, it would seem.

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1 hour ago, Zorro said:

We should be putting our feelers for a new manager now. AD has had his interview. He’s failed spectacularly. 

My only gripe with this is that it may demotivate Mr Dyer , that’s why I said only after we were safe . Not that I doubt his passion for the cause but I’d rather not give him an excuse. 

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36 minutes ago, KillieBus said:

Alessio also brought in a centre half (like Dyer, he had to, as a centre half had left) to a good defence. He also didn't bring in a creative midfielder - they are hard to get.

Rules for some but not for others, it would seem.

The defence was far from good when Del Fabro was brought in. It also turned out to be a good move because Kirk decided he needed more running in training and f**ked off

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9 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Says more about you than anything else.

You'd rather watch "good football" that see's us bottom of the form table since AA was sacked, rather than pick up points?

The name of the game is winning and we aren't winning.

The rut started when AA was here playing for 0-0 every game  wee were going to get found out eventually would probably be sitting rock bottom and scored 4 goals since october

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24 minutes ago, iainmaccoll said:

The rut started when AA was here playing for 0-0 every game  wee were going to get found out eventually would probably be sitting rock bottom and scored 4 goals since october

The rut started when the board chose to back the players over a manager Bowie described as the best in the league. 

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Think actually it is a worry. Think we thought we'd be ok by winning three in a row but 1 point out of 12 since has put us with a bit if work to do. Hamilton was a disaster. St Mirren play Hearts and one of them will get some kind of point if not one each. We are more than capable of losing on Saturday which would put us right in it. Let's not forget this is the same team that lost 7 in a row.

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1 hour ago, KillieBus said:

Alessio also brought in a centre half (like Dyer, he had to, as a centre half had left) to a good defence. He also didn't bring in a creative midfielder - they are hard to get.

Rules for some but not for others, it would seem.

AD has been here for over two years so knows the squad inside out, he should know exactly what HE would want in our squad to make his system work.

AA was here only 2 months before the window closed and he was left to work with what he had. In that time he had to assess the squad while identifying targets. Behind the scenes it seems the club was a shambles so he had that also to deal with along with settling in a new country. Despite this he ground out a lot of results and had won the fans over.

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1 hour ago, KillieBus said:

Alessio also brought in a centre half (like Dyer, he had to, as a centre half had left) to a good defence. He also didn't bring in a creative midfielder - they are hard to get.

Rules for some but not for others, it would seem.

You’re comparing apples with oranges. AA  brought in a defender to strengthen an area that couldn’t keep out a bunch of Welsh sheep herders. AD brought in a defender who couldn’t keep out a bunch of Welsh sheep herders to either strengthen the pool team or strengthen his bond with the dressing room. One tightened up our defensive record, the other has made it worse. 
 

As you say though, rules for some but not for others. Without his link with SC, Dyer would’ve been under much greater pressure than AA ever was. 

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3 hours ago, Zorro said:

We should be putting our feelers for a new manager now. AD has had his interview. He’s failed spectacularly. 

Well said

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