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Reality check 4 points off bottom this time next week

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1 hour ago, Zorro said:

You’re comparing apples with oranges. AA  brought in a defender to strengthen an area that couldn’t keep out a bunch of Welsh sheep herders. AD brought in a defender who couldn’t keep out a bunch of Welsh sheep herders to either strengthen the pool team or strengthen his bond with the dressing room. One tightened up our defensive record, the other has made it worse. 
 

As you say though, rules for some but not for others. Without his link with SC, Dyer would’ve been under much greater pressure than AA ever was. 

The point I was making was that both managers had to bring in a centre half.

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1 hour ago, KillieBus said:

The point I was making was that both managers had to bring in a centre half.

The point you’re missing is that it should’ve only have been a priority for one of them. We didn’t need over the hill centrebacks. We needed strikers and creative midfielders. 

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I don't think I'm missing a point at all (if you are happy with three centre half's in a squad, fair enough) and AD did bring in a striker (there is an argument that in Bunn, he tried to bring in a creative player), but we will need to agree to disagree.

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On 3/7/2020 at 11:14 PM, iainmaccoll said:

To be fair football under AA is the worst ive ever had to watch (not a dyer fan) but a least were scoring goals and games are more exiting. Top six or not dont think i could have lasted the season watching killie under AA.

 

I suppose you preferred having a decent lad like “Lockey” as a manger and witnessing us 0-4 at home to Ross County and Dundee in the space of a Fortnight.

 

He facts are clear. We were in 5th place when Alessio was sacked. Anything lower than that at seasons end will be a damning indictment of Bowie’s regime and indicate the utter incompetence of Fowler and Dyer 

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I donk think dyer is the man for the job either but the fact is he took over a team that was already on its way towards the bottom.

Wee were very lucky to win 1-0 most of the games wee did so spare me the bulls**t that things were ok our luck had ran out and wee already losing games

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His biggest triumph has been a 1 goal victory against a very poor rangers team.

If you didn't rate AA then its not a case of you have to support AD. I was sceptical of AA to start with but supported him and he won me round.

We need to move on and put this season behind us, we need to have feelers out for an experienced manager who will be able to turn us back round. Ive advocated a proper manager search with a thorough interview process, before I had said that if AD came out on top of that then fair enough but sorry I wouldn't even consider his application, he has shown nothing in his time as manager that suggests he is the right man for the job.

If AD is the answer then we are clearly asking the wrong question.

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53 minutes ago, Wee_Eck1979 said:

I was sceptical of AA to start with but supported him and he won me round.

AA picked up a load of points from 0-0s by holding possession deep for most of the game. He won several games by this method where he snatched a goal and then just denied the opposition possession. (i.e. not trying to add to the lead). By this method, as Squirrelhumper points out we amassed a large number of points we are now heavily dependent on to keep us clear of the drop. IMO it was an absolute crap watch, about as appealing as sitting for an hour watching "Call the Midwife".

Then we got totally sussed. Livingston played a high press against us and we collapsed like a wet cornflakes packet in the rain. We have never recovered. AD has improved things by getting us goals against teams that come at us (Sevco) but we still cant break down teams that are set up to deny opponents scoring chances (Hamilton). However AD has not fixed the goal leaking issue which IMO is where his focus should now be. s**t to watch but 5 0-0s would keep us up.

Just what I think. 

 

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17 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

However AD has not fixed the goal leaking issue which IMO is where his focus should now be. s**t to watch but 5 0-0s would keep us up.

 

Bringing in DDF for KB would be a start. 

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15 hours ago, iainmaccoll said:

The rut started when AA was here playing for 0-0 every game  wee were going to get found out eventually would probably be sitting rock bottom and scored 4 goals since october

Aye, we managed to get 23 points playing for 0-0.

How on earth would we be sitting rock bottom.

We could have got no points between him being sacked and now and still not be rock bottom.

What a pile of absolute nonsense.

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28 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

AA picked up a load of points from 0-0s by holding possession deep for most of the game. He won several games by this method where he snatched a goal and then just denied the opposition possession. (i.e. not trying to add to the lead). By this method, as Squirrelhumper points out we amassed a large number of points we are now heavily dependent on to keep us clear of the drop. IMO it was an absolute crap watch, about as appealing as sitting for an hour watching "Call the Midwife".

Then we got totally sussed. Livingston played a high press against us and we collapsed like a wet cornflakes packet in the rain. We have never recovered. AD has improved things by getting us goals against teams that come at us (Sevco) but we still cant break down teams that are set up to deny opponents scoring chances (Hamilton). However AD has not fixed the goal leaking issue which IMO is where his focus should now be. s**t to watch but 5 0-0s would keep us up.

Just what I think. 

 

The loss of Findlay at the end of October had a far bigger impact on our points haul than Livi sussing us out imo. Alex Bruce’s lack of pace was a constant concern. His sending off in possibly one of our best performances of the season contributed to a battering with a makeshift defence against Aberdeen. Then we ground out a few results, including a battering of Hearts. 
Bringing back Broadfoot has been a mistake. He’s woefully inadequate as a left centreback and that’s the position we needed covered. Now he’s been shoehorned into his preferred position at the expense of one of this seasons better performers. Findlay and Del Fabro are our best defensive pair and I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that Findlay’s ropiest moments have come with Broadfoot as his defensive partner. Even one step over to cover your partner can mean the difference between being in the right place at the right time or having to make last ditch tackles where you risk giving away a penalty. 

Edited by Zorro

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Hearing all the "false position" and s**te football under AA. (Yes the football wasnt great)

Norwich play good football, that isnt gonna end well. The fact of the matter is we were sitting 5th.

Anyone who doesnt think we are in bother of going down under Dyer imo are wrong, and if they're right this season and we stay up and give Dyer the job, I cant imagine we will be very good next season either

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2 hours ago, iainmaccoll said:

I donk think dyer is the man for the job either but the fact is he took over a team that was already on its way towards the bottom.

Wee were very lucky to win 1-0 most of the games wee did so spare me the bulls**t that things were ok our luck had ran out and wee already losing games

Our biggest league win this season has been when AA was boss.

Steve Clarke won a lot of games 1-0 and 2-1 when we were lucky to get the results. It wasn't all free flowing football under him either. He got the results and that's what matters. Same with AA - we were getting results.

At least under AA we were picking up points. Can't say the same with AD.

So save me the bulls**t about us being bottom of the league under AA. We wouldn't have been and you fine well know it.

Edited by Squirrelhumper

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11 hours ago, KillieBus said:

I don't think I'm missing a point at all (if you are happy with three centre half's in a squad, fair enough) and AD did bring in a striker (there is an argument that in Bunn, he tried to bring in a creative player), but we will need to agree to disagree.

He brought in a striker and let two leave. We have less options now than we had. The squad is a mess; woefully short of numbers and completely imbalanced. It needs a complete overhaul. 

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And just to add more misery to our already short,underperforming and imbalanced squad our number one goalkeeper comes back from his loan spell and gets injured in yesterday's  reserve game just our luck eh?.

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Not sure why everyone is having a go at Broadfoot's inclusion. He's been fine since he returned... Findlay is the one who has been poorer of the two, but he gets a free ride of it.

Odd.

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37 minutes ago, Bullitt said:

Not sure why everyone is having a go at Broadfoot's inclusion. He's been fine since he returned... Findlay is the one who has been poorer of the two, but he gets a free ride of it.

Odd.

As I said in my post, Findlay’s worst games this season have been with Broadfoot. Findlay has to cover too much space while Broadfoot does his octopus impression on some unlucky striker. 

Edited by Zorro

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3 hours ago, Ngonge88 said:

Hearing all the "false position" and s**te football under AA. (Yes the football wasnt great)

Norwich play good football, that isnt gonna end well. The fact of the matter is we were sitting 5th.

Anyone who doesnt think we are in bother of going down under Dyer imo are wrong, and if they're right this season and we stay up and give Dyer the job, I cant imagine we will be very good next season either

We were eight points off the playoff spot the week Alessio left. Below us, County had a game in hand and St Johnstone had two games in hand. Hibs also had a game in hand which they later won so we were more sixth than fifth in the grand scheme of things. 

That was after a period where a good Hibs side had been massively underperforning and a decent St Johnstone side had been massively underperforning. It was always likely they were going to come good, as they have.

We knew at the time it was a false position in terms of how well we were performing, it was commented on loads on here. 

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50 minutes ago, Last Atari Moron said:

Wee thought. If Dyer was given the job at the end of last season do you think the board would have replaced him after 15 games?

Doubt it but if we had 10pts after our first 15 games I don't know if he'd be given such an easy ride off the support.

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1 hour ago, Zorro said:

As I said in my post, Findlay’s worst games this season have been with Broadfoot. Findlay has to cover too much space while Broadfoot does his octopus impression on some unlucky striker. 

That's how I've seen it. Findlay's tackles have been beyond daft but the amount of covering he needs to do for Broadfoot is mental.

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14 hours ago, gdevoy said:

 

Then we got totally sussed. Livingston played a high press against us and we collapsed like a wet cornflakes packet in the rain. We have never recovered. AD has improved things by getting us goals against teams that come at us (Sevco) but we still cant break down teams that are set up to deny opponents scoring chances (Hamilton). However AD has not fixed the goal leaking issue which IMO is where his focus should now be. s**t to watch but 5 0-0s would keep us up.

Just what I think. 

 

I don’t think any teams needed to “suss us out” , the truth was that we had a group of very influential and indeed important players decide amongst themselves to down tools, those guys I cannot find it in me to forgive as I spent a fortune following us all over the place while they got paid.

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5 hours ago, killie billies pal said:

I don’t think any teams needed to “suss us out” , the truth was that we had a group of very influential and indeed important players decide amongst themselves to down tools, those guys I cannot find it in me to forgive as I spent a fortune following us all over the place while they got paid.

 I think that's bulls**t. Players weren't happy, and that had an obvious impact. But they played Alessios game to the letter, stuck to his shape and tried to create chances in the way he asked them to. The difference in our style of play was absolutely immediate after he left. I saw a group of players try to play a system that they didn't enjoy and didn't suit their strengths - but I didn't see them give up or do anything less than try and implement that system. 

Think about it - the defensive record got much worse since Alessio left - is that the sign of players who weren't working before? Pretty difficult to chuck it and have the second best defensive record in the league. 

No surprise to me that, for example, SoD looked poor when he was asked to start all attacks with no midfield close, no options in front of him and a completely isolated Brophy. Or that he's looked good with a player to cross at and options in midfield. 

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7 hours ago, killie billies pal said:

I don’t think any teams needed to “suss us out” , the truth was that we had a group of very influential and indeed important players decide amongst themselves to down tools, those guys I cannot find it in me to forgive as I spent a fortune following us all over the place while they got paid.

This is my opinion, certainly against Connahs Quay where there was no excuse whatsoever to go out in that manner. 

The fact the players played a huge part in Alessio going doesn't sit well and the results have been considerably worse since they got to 'play the style of football they like'. 

Dyer was quite clearly not pulling in the same direction as Alessio either as proven when he brings back a troublemaker that AA got shot of.

Agree with the last part as well, it is hard to stomach some of them after the europa league disgrace then working to their own agendas in a way which has taken our club backwards. If they had thrown their toys out the pram, got their pal in charge then improved drastically and we were going for europe then they may have had a point, but the results have got worse and now in a position where the manager is saying top 6 is gone, despite being 5th when the players got their wish.

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2 hours ago, mitch14 said:

 I think that's bulls**t. Players weren't happy, and that had an obvious impact. But they played Alessios game to the letter, stuck to his shape and tried to create chances in the way he asked them to. The difference in our style of play was absolutely immediate after he left. I saw a group of players try to play a system that they didn't enjoy and didn't suit their strengths - but I didn't see them give up or do anything less than try and implement that system. 

Think about it - the defensive record got much worse since Alessio left - is that the sign of players who weren't working before? Pretty difficult to chuck it and have the second best defensive record in the league. 

No surprise to me that, for example, SoD looked poor when he was asked to start all attacks with no midfield close, no options in front of him and a completely isolated Brophy. Or that he's looked good with a player to cross at and options in midfield. 

All very well and good.

Results have got worse though, so despite the players being "happy|" we are incapable of picking up points.

Surely if AD can't get results with happy players, then he should be nowhere near the job?

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40 minutes ago, Gaz of the 20/20 said:

 

Agree with the last part as well, it is hard to stomach some of them after the europa league disgrace then working to their own agendas in a way which has taken our club backwards. If they had thrown their toys out the pram, got their pal in charge then improved drastically and we were going for europe then they may have had a point, but the results have got worse and now in a position where the manager is saying top 6 is gone, despite being 5th when the players got their wish.

Pretty much sums it up for me.

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