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Mclean07

Thank You to the Scottish People

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What a mess we would be in today if the Scottish people hadn’t have shown the common sense that they did in the 2014 referendum. 

Today, the first First Minister would be appearing in court on sexual assault charges.

The price of oil that the economy was based on in the 2014 White Paper ($110) would be $30+
The economy would already be trying to deal with the withdrawal of the 13 billion fiscal annual transfer and getting down the highest deficit in Europe. 
 

This doesn’t even account for the currency and central bank issues. Of course some would accept all this, just to be “free”. Not a price most people were prepared to pay for themselves and their families. 

1BE80B0A-2DA7-4AFF-A0ED-764F86515F3D.jpeg.921d38f42ceae4eb227aa4c4952de2bc.jpeg


 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

What a mess we would be in today if the Scottish people hadn’t have shown the common sense that they did in the 2014 referendum. 

Today, the first First Minister would be appearing in court on sexual assault charges.

The price of oil that the economy was based on in the 2014 White Paper ($110) would be $30+
The economy would already be trying to deal with the withdrawal of the 13 billion fiscal annual transfer and getting down the highest deficit in Europe. 
 

This doesn’t even account for the currency and central bank issues. Of course some would accept all this, just to be “free”. Not a price most people were prepared to pay for themselves and their families. 

1BE80B0A-2DA7-4AFF-A0ED-764F86515F3D.jpeg.921d38f42ceae4eb227aa4c4952de2bc.jpeg


 

 

 

 

What an odious person you are.  Absolute jockholm syndrome union Jack waving tosser.

How is the antisemitism enquiry going on with Labour, oh and I see another labour MP has been suspended for Racism,   is there any end to the depth of vilness from your beloved British labour?

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No matter how much those in favour of the union might fantisise, Eck behaving like a twat is not going to make those in favour of independence go away.

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On 3/9/2020 at 5:40 PM, Beaker71 said:

What an odious person you are.  Absolute jockholm syndrome union Jack waving tosser.

How is the antisemitism enquiry going on with Labour, oh and I see another labour MP has been suspended for Racism,   is there any end to the depth of vilness from your beloved British labour?

When he can casually defend friends from down south who come away with race-tinged statements like, "they couldn't believe how white everywhere was" up here, then all his pronouncements are sadly predictable!

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On 3/9/2020 at 5:45 PM, gdevoy said:

No matter how much those in favour of the union might fantisise, Eck behaving like a twat is not going to make those in favour of independence go away.

McLean07 is just using that picture to rightly point out that the SNP’s fiscal and monetary policies would have had our country in a mess at this time had we voted for independence. Scooter and Beaker are using deflection tactics by not addressing the points raised , yes Labour have/had anti Semitic problems but I believe they will be or are getting addressed , this should be applauded , just like when they defended and some applauded the SNP over the Derek MacKay scandal . And casual racism is sadly something that’s very difficult to stop ,control or even define  , witness some  Killie fans still arguing that using the words black ba*88rds is not racist. What some people see as racist some do not .
I agree Salmond now has little to do with independence but he was relevant to the 2014 vote imo. 

I would raise another question to the independent supporters , how do you think an independent  Scottish NHS would cope with the Coronavirus crisis ? 

Edited by Bonbon19

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14 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

McLean07 is just using that picture to rightly point out that the SNP’s fiscal and monetary policies would have had our country in a mess at this time had we voted for independence. Scooter and Beaker are using deflection tactics by not addressing the points raised ,

I'm sorry, but putting up pictures of polis and former politicians currently in court, who btw have serious reporting restrictions on their trial, is trolling plain and simple.  Not addressing the points, is exactly the right thing to do under the circumstances where freedom of expression is limited.

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3 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

McLean07 is just using that picture to rightly point out that the SNP’s fiscal and monetary policies would have had our country in a mess at this time had we voted for independence. Scooter and Beaker are using deflection tactics by not addressing the points raised , yes Labour have/had anti Semitic problems but I believe they will be or are getting addressed , this should be applauded , just like when they defended and some applauded the SNP over the Derek MacKay scandal . And casual racism is sadly something that’s very difficult to stop ,control or even define  , witness some  Killie fans still arguing that using the words black ba*88rds is not racist. What some people see as racist some do not . 

I would raise another question to the independent supporters , how do you think an independent  Scottish NHS would cope with the Coronavirus crisis ? 

A lot to unpack here.

Firstly, the issue has only been raised here, again, because of the colour scarf that is worn and to soothe his natural superiority complex, not on the issue itself.

Allegations of racism & anti-Semitism have been largely ignored, here and in the wider Labour movement, but that's okay it seems, but address 'this' issue, lol. Aye okay. I'll make a judgement when I hear the evidence thanks.

I'm actually surprised you aren't giving Salmond the benefit of the doubt as that seems to be your favourite pastime.

Oh, and nobody knows what state our country would be in had the indy vote gone the other way because different decisions would've been made, but everyone can draw their own conclusions depending on what scarf they wear or who's crystal ball they look into.

Lastly, very well methinks. 9_9

 

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20 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

McLean07 is just using that picture to rightly point out that the SNP’s fiscal and monetary policies would have had our country in a mess at this time had we voted for independence.

For me, the fact that the SNP’s fiscal and monetary policies from 2014 would have had our country in really, really deep smelly stuff by now had we voted for independence is so self evident it needs absolutely no supporting evidence whatever. Sadly there are several posters on these forums for whom any learned advice or a declaration signed by Albert Einstein or even the Good Lord Himself would simply not be enough. 

My point is that the public exposure of the unsavoury side of the then first minister is totally irrelevant.

Edited by gdevoy

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23 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

I would raise another question to the independent supporters , how do you think an independent  Scottish NHS would cope with the Coronavirus crisis ? 

No better or worse that the current situation. The virus is a total unknown. So from Trump's "its all a scam to derail my re-election campaign"  to the we're all going to die brigade I would simply say nobody knows.

For those who ask how bad will it get and when will it get there I would say nobody knows. This is an event that will only be fully understood in the glare of hindsight.  

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3 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

For me, the fact that the SNP’s fiscal and monetary policies from 2014 would have had our country in really, really deep smelly stuff by now had we voted for independence is so self evident it needs absolutely no supporting evidence whatever. Sadly there are several posters on these forums for whom any learned advice or a declaration signed by Albert Einstein or even the Good Lord Himself would simply not be enough.

Equally, the UK gov could decided to chop 10% off our GDP by leaving the EU and some folk would act like it never happened and claim this decline in social and living standards was somehow factored into the 2014 vote..

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3 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

For me, the fact that the SNP’s fiscal and monetary policies from 2014 would have had our country in really, really deep smelly stuff by now had we voted for independence is so self evident it needs absolutely no supporting evidence whatever.

Oh I think it does need evidence, of which there is none as completely different decisions woulda/coulda been made. Can you say for certain that government fiscal and monetary policies would've been exactly the same had the vote gone the other way?

So your certain assertion is just pure supposition!

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On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2020 at 5:40 PM, Beaker71 said:

What an odious person you are.  Absolute jockholm syndrome union Jack waving tosser.

How is the antisemitism enquiry going on with Labour, oh and I see another labour MP has been suspended for Racism,   is there any end to the depth of vilness from your beloved British labour?

I have to agree with you on that.

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50 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

For me, the fact that the SNP’s fiscal and monetary policies from 2014 would have had our country in really, really deep smelly stuff by now had we voted for independence is so self evident it needs absolutely no supporting evidence whatever. Sadly there are several posters on these forums for whom any learned advice or a declaration signed by Albert Einstein or even the Good Lord Himself would simply not be enough.

I'm sorry but I've given you at least two detailed posts on how fiscal and government policies would be entirely different and would considerably reduce the apportioned spend of an independent Scotland based on CURRENT situation.  We can easily extrapolate that back to show how we would not be the basket case you and the the likes of McLean like to prophesise, you with no evidence and McLean with GERS which gets taken apart every time he brings it up and shows everyone why we need to get OUT of the union.

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40 minutes ago, Scooter said:

So your certain assertion is just pure supposition!

My view is partly based on spending the evening of the referendum in the company of a civil servant who was actually visibly seriously worried about the consequences of a Yes vote. The budgetary hit to people dependent on state benefits, particularly the elderly would have been life changing. I don't think that person was "imagining" thinks based on UK propaganda but had a genuine understanding of the real implications.

I know people would have survived and the threat to kick the nukes out of Faslane was something the UK government had simply not factored in.

Perhaps by now things would have improved and we would be back inside the EU laughing at our bigoted southern cousins.  

 

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I have made no secret of my dislike of Salmond as an individual.

This has been seperate for my dislike of his politics.

I am glad to see that he is getting his day(s) in court and fervently hope that justice is served.

I have been aware of the "talk" about Salmond for many years. Family and friends who have worked with him have mentioned that it was common policy for women to avoid being alone with him where at all possible.

I am not pre-judging the outcome of the case nor the veracity of the particular women involved in this case. Just because he has a "reputation" does not mean he actually committed these particular crimes for which he is charged. Also I am old enough to know that justice and the law are not the same thing in practice.

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12 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

My view is partly based on spending the evening of the referendum in the company of a civil servant who was actually visibly seriously worried about the consequences of a Yes vote. The budgetary hit to people dependent on state benefits, particularly the elderly would have been life changing. I don't think that person was "imagining" thinks based on UK propaganda but had a genuine understanding of the real implications.

I know people would have survived and the threat to kick the nukes out of Faslane was something the UK government had simply not factored in.

Perhaps by now things would have improved and we would be back inside the EU laughing at our bigoted southern cousins.  

 

So from 'no evidence required' to hearsay from one person? Really? C'mon now, I thought you were a scientist.

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1 hour ago, Scooter said:

 

I'm actually surprised you aren't giving Salmond the benefit of the doubt as that seems to be your favourite pastime.

Oh, and nobody knows what state our country would be in had the indy vote gone the other way because different decisions would've been made, but everyone can draw their own conclusions depending on what scarf they wear or who's crystal ball they look into.

Lastly, very well methinks. 9_9

 

At no point did I say Salmond was guilty or not , his use of that picture I’m sure you realise was tongue in cheek , but he was the architect or figurehead of the 2014 vote so it’s relevant to the question posed . 

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17 minutes ago, Sandman396 said:

I have made no secret of my dislike of Salmond as an individual.

This has been seperate for my dislike of his politics.

I am glad to see that he is getting his day(s) in court and fervently hope that justice is served.

I have been aware of the "talk" about Salmond for many years. Family and friends who have worked with him have mentioned that it was common policy for women to avoid being alone with him where at all possible.

I am not pre-judging the outcome of the case nor the veracity of the particular women involved in this case. Just because he has a "reputation" does not mean he actually committed these particular crimes for which he is charged. Also I am old enough to know that justice and the law are not the same thing in practice.

 Rumour, innuendo chit chat, probably not very helpful in this instance.  Unwise to comment on the criminal case.  Apparently the civil case was settled with punitive 'extra' damages awarded to Salmond AND they are going to review the complaints procedure, but obviously can't until end of the criminal trial.  

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34 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

My view is partly based on spending the evening of the referendum in the company of a civil servant who was actually visibly seriously worried about the consequences of a Yes vote. The budgetary hit to people dependent on state benefits, particularly the elderly would have been life changing. I don't think that person was "imagining" thinks based on UK propaganda but had a genuine understanding of the real implications.

I know people would have survived and the threat to kick the nukes out of Faslane was something the UK government had simply not factored in.

Perhaps by now things would have improved and we would be back inside the EU laughing at our bigoted southern cousins.  

 

Sorry hit civil servants are paid for by Whitehall and are actively involved in maintaining the British state.  Especially in 2014.

Your comment on the impact on the elderly is absolute propaganda and bulls**t.  It also flies utterly on the face of formally published comments from the UK treasury which confirmed pensions and other benefits for the elderly would be totally unaffected by the result of the referendum.

All of the comments you've made recently are based purely on hearsay coming from the BBC, MSM and unionist parties.   Absolutely no interrogation at all.

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41 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

At no point did I say Salmond was guilty or not , his use of that picture I’m sure you realise was tongue in cheek , but he was the architect or figurehead of the 2014 vote so it’s relevant to the question posed . 

Unless grammar has changed since my school days, I don't think there was a question posed ...except if it was maybe, look at meeeeeeee??? 9_9

Edited by Scooter

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47 minutes ago, Scooter said:

So from 'no evidence required' to hearsay from one person? Really? C'mon now, I thought you were a scientist.

And a prospectus produced by the prospective new Scottish government declaring

a) we would be able to afford to provide social services exactly as there had been as part of the UK

and:

b) there would be a currency union because it was in everybody's interests
c) Scotland would automatically be part of the EU 

Given b) and c) were demonstrated to be part of a fantasy wish list produced by the SNP, do you still say a) had credibility because the SNP had written it down in a big book? 

 As a scientist I would say the onus is on the proposer to show the integrity of their claims rather than anyone to demonstrate their flaws. 

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37 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

Sorry hit civil servants are paid for by Whitehall and are actively involved in maintaining the British state.  Especially in 2014.

It seems to me that that anybody who does not share you view has clearly been "brainwashed".

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39 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

It seems to me that that anybody who does not share you view has clearly been "brainwashed".

Got it in one gdevoy , it seems that only the independence supporters are capable of making a reasoned argument .

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