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Economic impact of Coronavirus


Killiepies

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2 hours ago, Zorro said:

Would you be shocked to learn that Labour and the Lib Dems also receive funding from other ‘tax avoidance specialists’?

Absolutely not at all.  All are the same barring a few minor adjustments.  All up to their tits in grime, corruption, and are elitist to their parliamentary core.

Labour used to be a voice of dissension against the elite,now the feed at the same trough and line their pockets as much as the others.

Independence is the only option to try and reduce the corruption and pocket lining.

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27 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

Independence is the only option to try and reduce the corruption and pocket lining.

Robert Mugabe? Or closer to home, your quote relates to the creation of the Irish Free State, now the corruption ridden Republic of Ireland?

The belief that Scots are somehow fundamentally different or better creates exactly the conditions that allow corruption to thrive.

The SNP have already shown more than mild enthusiasm for cooking the books and making the numbers up. That's hardly likely to change in an independent Scotland.

 

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2 hours ago, mackpomm said:

Robert Mugabe? Or closer to home, your quote relates to the creation of the Irish Free State, now the corruption ridden Republic of Ireland?

The belief that Scots are somehow fundamentally different or better creates exactly the conditions that allow corruption to thrive.

The SNP have already shown more than mild enthusiasm for cooking the books and making the numbers up. That's hardly likely to change in an independent Scotland.

 

No, the conditions which allow corruption to grow is the suggestion that ‘they’re all at it so we couldn’t possibly be any better of’. Independence isn’t a Hobson’s choice between you either get the SNP “cooking the books” or you can’t have Independence. Loads of countries became independent from the U.K. without electing the SNP to rule in perpetuity. Other political parties are available. Some places became much more corrupt, some places became less corrupt. That’s the way of the world. 

Edited by Zorro
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3 hours ago, mackpomm said:

Robert Mugabe? Or closer to home, your quote relates to the creation of the Irish Free State, now the corruption ridden Republic of Ireland?

The belief that Scots are somehow fundamentally different or better creates exactly the conditions that allow corruption to thrive.

The SNP have already shown more than mild enthusiasm for cooking the books and making the numbers up. That's hardly likely to change in an independent Scotland.

 

This literally is the most ridiculous unionist hogwash reasons why the UK.os great.  Total drivel based on a nothing but propaganda and bulls**t.

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5 hours ago, mackpomm said:

Robert Mugabe? Or closer to home, your quote relates to the creation of the Irish Free State, now the corruption ridden Republic of Ireland?

The belief that Scots are somehow fundamentally different or better creates exactly the conditions that allow corruption to thrive.

The SNP have already shown more than mild enthusiasm for cooking the books and making the numbers up. That's hardly likely to change in an independent Scotland.

 

Ireland and Mugabe in the same breath, get a grip man!!

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14 hours ago, CSI Kilmarnock said:

Ireland and Mugabe in the same breath, get a grip man!!

You are absolutely right there is no real comparison. What I think Mackpomm was perhaps getting at was that the euphoria that surrounds independence can be used as a shield for some very a-moral people to take particular personal advantage. Another lesson is that independence with a "totally clean slate" approach can lead to some hideously painful deprivation. I ont think any of this is inevitable but it is something we must be very mindful off. With great opportunity comes great danger.

 

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On 5/26/2020 at 12:37 PM, gdevoy said:

You are absolutely right there is no real comparison. What I think Mackpomm was perhaps getting at was that the euphoria that surrounds independence can be used as a shield for some very a-moral people to take particular personal advantage. Another lesson is that independence with a "totally clean slate" approach can lead to some hideously painful deprivation. I ont think any of this is inevitable but it is something we must be very mindful off. With great opportunity comes great danger.

 

....and that we as Scots are no different from the rest of the great unwashed, there are plenty of our own, politicians, businessmen, criminal organisations willing to tempt and vulnerable to being tempted. I can't hear "it's a newly independent country, och well, we'll no bother wi any of that under the table corruption malarkey".  Sometimes even a willingness to compromise between the lesser of two evils, fueled by hope, perhaps like Mugabe, is the first step.

I think my point was corruption is always with us, to imagine an independent Scotland would be different would be dangerous. Sorry, I probably deserve a pie for stating the bleeding obvious

(...and Mugabe did have Irish teachers, he talked about his education quite a lot:2:)

 

Edited by mackpomm
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2 hours ago, mackpomm said:

....and that we as Scots are no different from the rest of the great unwashed, there are plenty of our own, politicians, businessmen, criminal organisations willing to tempt and vulnerable to being tempted. I can't hear "it's a newly independent country, och well, we'll no bother wi any of that under the table corruption malarkey".  Sometimes even a willingness to compromise between the lesser of two evils, fueled by hope, perhaps like Mugabe, is the first step.

I think my point was corruption is always with us, to imagine an independent Scotland would be different would be dangerous. Sorry, I probably deserve a pie for stating the bleeding obvious

(...and Mugabe did have Irish teachers, he talked about his education quite a lot:2:)

 

You may be right but imo the closer to home decisions are made the more effective they are and possibly subject to better scrutiny.  Scots are disenfranchised with WM as our voices are lost against the wishes of our English counterparts. You only have to look at Labour's decline in Scotland to see how their attempts to appeal to a greater UK audience has alienated them in what was once their stronghold.

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Everyone looking forward to their hols?

Coronavirus: Ministers 'looking at ways to relax travel quarantine rule'

The government is looking at ways to relax the 14-day quarantine rule for people entering the UK over the coming months, BBC Newsnight has learnt.

From Monday, most people arriving by plane, ferry or train - including UK nationals - must self-isolate.

But some MPs and businesses have expressed concern at the plan, warning it will damage the travel industry.

One government source told Newsnight that ministers were looking at ways around the coronavirus quarantine.

This could include expanding the list of workers who are exempt from the 14-day rule, or travel corridors to countries with low infection rates, which the government has previously said it was considering.

Any changes would be guided by the science but one possible date for a relaxation to the rule could be 20 July, coinciding with school holidays, Newsnight was told.

The quarantine measures come into force on 8 June, although some professions are exempt, such as lorry drivers, police officers, seasonal farm workers, and healthcare professionals.

Also exempt will be people coming from the Irish Republic, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

Travellers will have to tell the UK government where they will be staying and if they do not provide an address, officials will arrange accommodation.

In England, there will be random spot checks and £1,000 fines, while governments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can impose their own penalties.

Housing minister Simon Clarke told BBC Breakfast that the quarantine policy was "a proportionate step" which would minimise the risk of new cases coming into the UK "just at the time that we are getting a grip on it".

He said it was a "temporary, time-limited measure", but added that it was "vital" it was introduced for as long as required.

The plan is expected to be set out in more detail when it is laid before Parliament this week. MPs are returning to Westminster on Tuesday after weeks of proceedings taking place virtually.

Extra guidance about what arrivals would be allowed to do is also expected to be set out, including that travellers will be allowed to take public transport if they are unable to get to their accommodation by any other means.

The quarantine plan is due to be reviewed every three weeks, with the first review due at the end of June.

Announcing the plan last month, Home Secretary Priti Patel said the measure would "reduce the risk of cases crossing our border".

But there has been criticism from some of the government's own MPs as well as the travel and aviation industry.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52886724

 

The haven't even implemented a quarantine plan yet. (why the delay?)

"Any changes would be guided by the science but one possible date for a relaxation to the rule could be 20 July, coinciding with school holidays"

Amazing how the scientists know the coronavirus will take a break at the same time as the school holidays. (again all reports referring to the situation in England!)

"or travel corridors to countries with low infection rates" - why would countries with low infection rates allow people from UK to arrive without quarantine at the moment?

 

 

 

Edited by Prahakillie
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33 minutes ago, Prahakillie said:

........................... or travel corridors to countries with low infection rates, which the government has previously said it was considering.

 

This is a real side splitter. The UK has one of the worst Covid-19 infection and death rates in the world. What countries were they thinking of a low infection, "air bridge", reciprocal agreement with? USA, Russia or Brazil?

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21 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

Anyone for round 2 which will be 10 times worse.

My friend who works in admin for NHS England seems to think the second wave will probably pitch up around October / November as the temperature drops. He thinks transmission is low right now because of the higher temperatures but as we head into winter it will shoot back up.

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35 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

My friend who works in admin for NHS England seems to think the second wave will probably pitch up around October / November as the temperature drops. He thinks transmission is low right now because of the higher temperatures but as we head into winter it will shoot back up.

That sounds like the kind of unscientific advice BoJo or Trump would follow. 

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1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

My friend who works in admin for NHS England seems to think the second wave will probably pitch up around October / November as the temperature drops. He thinks transmission is low right now because of the higher temperatures but as we head into winter it will shoot back up.

That depends if covid 19 behaves like previous “flu “ viruses . There are plenty of voices questioning if covid 19 can be classed as a flu type virus . Hugh Pennington who worked with the scientist who discovered the human coronavirus is a sceptic and has told Sturgeon this at a scientific meeting . Everyone is using the Spanish flu pandemic as an example despite never knowing what type of virus caused it . 
Im hoping Pennington is correct , my golf holiday is banking on it :) 

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1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

This is a real side splitter. The UK has one of the worst Covid-19 infection and death rates in the world. What countries were they thinking of a low infection, "air bridge", reciprocal agreement with? USA, Russia or Brazil?

I would guess they'll reach a deal with the USA to keep Branson and Trump happy. All based on the very best scientific advice of course.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

That depends if covid 19 behaves like previous “flu “ viruses . There are plenty of voices questioning if covid 19 can be classed as a flu type virus . Hugh Pennington who worked with the scientist who discovered the human coronavirus is a sceptic and has told Sturgeon this at a scientific meeting . Everyone is using the Spanish flu pandemic as an example despite never knowing what type of virus caused it . 
Im hoping Pennington is correct , my golf holiday is banking on it :) 

Whatever is going on the one thing we know is that it is not like anything we have seen before.

One theory is that there have been so many asymptomatic cases that already we have a massive heard immunity. Everything will go back to normal and there will be no second wave.

Another theory is that it is only the lockdown that is slowing transmission and that easing it will inevitably lead to a second wave of indeterminate size at some point in the future. 

Without any real testing and tracing it really is just ICU roulette we are playing.

 

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On 6/2/2020 at 11:59 AM, gdevoy said:

One theory is that there have been so many asymptomatic cases that already we have a massive heard immunity.

I saw something the other day which suggested the number of people infected so far is nowhere near enough to constitute herd immunity.

As far as I can remember, it was based on the number of confirmed case, currently 280,000. Taking the worst R rate of three infections per carrier, this would give a total of just over a million, nowhere near enough to be considered a herd.

 

 

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2 hours ago, skygod said:

I saw something the other day which suggested the number of people infected so far is nowhere near enough to constitute herd immunity.

IIRC was 7% overall in the UK, about 19% in London, but is as low as 4% in the English regions.  Might make a big difference to government policy, if there's a few waves of it and you have almost that 60% herd immunity in London, but only about 10-15% elsewhere?  Especially with the Tories proud history of always putting the 'Shires before the Capital!

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