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Shropshire_killie

VE day

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4 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

It wasn't just the British state, the Americans and Russians were fighting for their own place in the new World Order. Russia was determined to murder and rape it's way through Germany to get revenge for the atrocities committed on Russian soil. The Allies all knew about the concentration camps well before the end of the war and did very little to stop them. The VE celebrations never acknowledge the fact that without the US and Russia it would have been a defeat. We shouldn't act so high and mighty about the British Empire, Scots made their fortunes as well on the subjugation of the natives of the far East, India, and Africa. We were just as happy to reap the rewards from the exploitation of these countries. 

Fair comment about Scots benefiting from the Empire. 

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12 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

Except you didnt though and your post came across as flippant and not it in the least related to the various debate position on whether a celebration 75 years after VE day is overtly political or in anyway appropriate.

Flippant from the man who uses terms like f**8e* clownshoe and other derogatory terms on a political forum . You believe what you want . 

Edited by Bonbon19

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3 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

Flippant from the man who uses terms like f**8e* clownshoe and other derogatory terms on a political forum . You believe what you want . 

I do use that term often towards one person who posts more excrement on here than anyone ever thought possible.  However the use of those words are hardly flippant or even facetious,  they are often very accurate to describe the lebelmofnpost and general level of absolute self hating mince being posted.

But you're clearly annoyed at being called out, so I've obviously hit the nail on the head.

Edited by Beaker71

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7 hours ago, gdevoy said:

Fair comment about Scots benefiting from the Empire. 

Yes they did, difference now though is that while any of us recognise the atrocities carried out and want nothing to do with it any longer, while a huge swathe of our  neighbours people and most certainly those in charge down south want to recreate it.

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1 hour ago, Beaker71 said:

..........and most certainly those in charge down south want to recreate it.

It would certainly appear so.

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14 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

The VE celebrations never acknowledge the fact that without the US and Russia it would have been a defeat. 

Very true. When Churchill took over everybody in the know understood the UK could not prevail. All Churchills's advisors told him the only way out was a negotiated settlement with the Germans. But Chyrchill was incredibly stubborn and hung minto the possibility of getting the Americans involved. And it sort of worked eventually. Unfortunately while we were on the winning side we lost a huge amount if influence to the US rather than the Gernans as a result. And the Anericans paid for the reconstruction if Germany but the UK was as good as bankrupted trying to rebuild itself.

A lot if flag waving but not a lot to celebrate if you dig under the surface. 

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21 hours ago, harley said:

Cmon McLean. You can’t have it both ways. You either like flag wavers or you don’t. Make your f**king mind up. I toasted all the old soldiers yesterday but Churchill can get himself to feck.

I don’t like flag wavers in general. I was never defending flag waving jingoism, simply innocent people raising a glass or having a little tea and cake with their  kids. It’s always black and white with people on here. I am well aware of the crimes committed by the British Empire, but that doesn’t mean you can’t salute men and women who were forced into defeating evil. I cringe when I see any flag on a pole outside of someone’s  house. Poor neighbours. They should be ordered to be removed by the local authority pronto. I am not a Scottish Nationalist or a British Nationalist, I am the same as I have I have always been, mainstream centre left who believes we are stronger together in the UK and in Europe. As I’m from a mining community and family going back generations, I’m hardly likely to be a fan of Churchill. I strongly recommend the biography of Atlee, who was a patriot in the best sense of the word and played a key part in the war effort and then bravely rebuilding the country in the least promising of circumstances. 

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22 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

You seriously need help if you think theres no collective difference in thinking between Scotland and the rUK on major policies such as Defense, Health, Brexit, etc.

Delusional at best, deliberately antagonistic bullss**tting the most likely.

And I've yet to receive an apology for you vile insinuations earlier in this thread.

‘Innocent and guilty died on all sides”. As far as I am concerned, the guilty were massively on one side. It’s a Trump like comment. No apology.

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“We shouldn’t act so high and mighty about the British empire, Scots blah, blah, blah, blah”. Typical apologist deflection from the atrocities Great Britain has committed. It doesn’t matter if Scots were involved, we should still be able to look at the evidence dispassionately and conclude that we were just as bad as the Germans. We have as much ‘Untermensch’ blood on our hands. Is their dream of a tausendjähriges any different from the concept of the sun never setting on the empire?

Its infantile to think we were the good guys and they were the evil. It’s wasn’t like an old western with the good guys in white and and the baddies in black. There’s a hell of a lot of grey in history, with the victors justifying their atrocities as necessary and painting their vanquished foes acts as war crimes. Some people on here appear to have got their history lessons direct from Elstree studio and Commando comics  

 

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42 minutes ago, Zorro said:

“We shouldn’t act so high and mighty about the British empire, Scots blah, blah, blah, blah”. Typical apologist deflection from the atrocities Great Britain has committed. It doesn’t matter if Scots were involved, we should still be able to look at the evidence dispassionately and conclude that we were just as bad as the Germans. We have as much ‘Untermensch’ blood on our hands. Is their dream of a tausendjähriges any different from the concept of the sun never setting on the empire?

Its infantile to think we were the good guys and they were the evil. It’s wasn’t like an old western with the good guys in white and and the baddies in black. There’s a hell of a lot of grey in history, with the victors justifying their atrocities as necessary and painting their vanquished foes acts as war crimes. Some people on here appear to have got their history lessons direct from Elstree studio and Commando comics  

 

You mean like an old western where the cowboys are the good guys and the Indians are the bad guys ? I'm not defending the atrocities that were committed by both sides in WW2. Are you saying that the people who fought and died fighting fascism in Spain and in WW2 were wrong ?  The empire builders were the ones that wanted to appease Hitler to preserve their little bit of red on the map, they didn't want to fight him and potentially lose everything. 

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58 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

‘Innocent and guilty died on all sides”. As far as I am concerned, the guilty were massively on one side. It’s a Trump like comment. No apology.

Absolute horses**t and evasion as usual from you.  You throw horrible accusations around like confetti and squeal like a stuck pig if someone calls you a name.

You're a bitter bitter individual, and cannot see that all wars are fought largely by innocent people lied to and made to performs acts of bravery, and butchery alike by the real evil.  The elite and power hungry sho would never put themselves in harm's way.

Hitler did what all evil leaders and despots do, sow fear and pick on one or two groups to blame for the issues, use media and propaganda to fan the flames of that fear.  Perform little acts of evil which grow bit by bit and reduces the ordinary peoples intolerance to such acts.  But then you cannot see that the empire and british elite are doing it just now with Brexit (minus the mass genocide of course but then we do have mass crime against the poor going on) you dont agree with that but so support the continuation ad infinitum of the elite who are perpetrating.

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People pretending to give a f**k about VE Day with cups of tea and slices of cake 9_9 ...after 75 years, I think it's about time we started kinda gettin' over 'the war'! None of us were alive and it was a different time.

The Germans seem to have gotten over it and they seem to be doing awrite.

If it wasn't for the Russians and Americans we'd've been toast but VE Day makes out Rule Britannia won on her own, and is now just a crass cloak for some exaggerated empire s**t that has long since passed into history! 

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3 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

I don’t like flag wavers in general. I was never defending flag waving jingoism, simply innocent people raising a glass or having a little tea and cake with their  kids. It’s always black and white with people on here. I am well aware of the crimes committed by the British Empire, but that doesn’t mean you can’t salute men and women who were forced into defeating evil. I cringe when I see any flag on a pole outside of someone’s  house. Poor neighbours. They should be ordered to be removed by the local authority pronto. I am not a Scottish Nationalist or a British Nationalist, I am the same as I have I have always been, mainstream centre left who believes we are stronger together in the UK and in Europe. As I’m from a mining community and family going back generations, I’m hardly likely to be a fan of Churchill. I strongly recommend the biography of Atlee, who was a patriot in the best sense of the word and played a key part in the war effort and then bravely rebuilding the country in the least promising of circumstances. 

I'm kinda in the same place but I am a bit disturbed by the way the flag wavers gave stolen the agenda over this Brexit thing. Unlike you I believe NS has something to offer although like you I think she has her own flag waving nut jobs to contend with.

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1 hour ago, Scooter said:

If it wasn't for the Russians and Americans we'd've been toast but VE Day makes out Rule Britannia won on her own, and is now just a crass cloak for some exaggerated empire s**t that has long since passed into history! 

I agree with this also.

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3 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

I don’t like flag wavers in general. I was never defending flag waving jingoism, simply innocent people raising a glass or having a little tea and cake with their  kids. It’s always black and white with people on here. I am well aware of the crimes committed by the British Empire, but that doesn’t mean you can’t salute men and women who were forced into defeating evil. I cringe when I see any flag on a pole outside of someone’s  house. Poor neighbours. They should be ordered to be removed by the local authority pronto. I am not a Scottish Nationalist or a British Nationalist, I am the same as I have I have always been, mainstream centre left who believes we are stronger together in the UK and in Europe. As I’m from a mining community and family going back generations, I’m hardly likely to be a fan of Churchill. I strongly recommend the biography of Atlee, who was a patriot in the best sense of the word and played a key part in the war effort and then bravely rebuilding the country in the least promising of circumstances. 

Agree with this except the flag pole comment . It shows the houses to be avoided at new year . 

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19 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

Agree with this except the flag pole comment . It shows the houses to be avoided at new year . 

Bollox re flags. I have me Saltire out on occasion and on me bass cab.20200510_161310.jpg.80302c1c6db68451efcd549f37f17d58.jpg

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3 hours ago, Zorro said:

“We shouldn’t act so high and mighty about the British empire, Scots blah, blah, blah, blah”. Typical apologist deflection from the atrocities Great Britain has committed. It doesn’t matter if Scots were involved, we should still be able to look at the evidence dispassionately and conclude that we were just as bad as the Germans. We have as much ‘Untermensch’ blood on our hands. Is their dream of a tausendjähriges any different from the concept of the sun never setting on the empire?

Its infantile to think we were the good guys and they were the evil. It’s wasn’t like an old western with the good guys in white and and the baddies in black. There’s a hell of a lot of grey in history, with the victors justifying their atrocities as necessary and painting their vanquished foes acts as war crimes. Some people on here appear to have got their history lessons direct from Elstree studio and Commando comics  

 

While I agree that the British Empire was guilty of atrocities, the lack of a plan to systematically exterminate millions of their own citizens probably gave them a slight moral advantage.

 

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8 minutes ago, Fankle said:

While I agree that the British Empire was guilty of atrocities, the lack of a plan to systematically exterminate millions of their own citizens probably gave them a slight moral advantage.

 

Trying to make up for it now though.

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4 hours ago, Zorro said:

Its infantile to think we were the good guys and they were the evil. It’s wasn’t like an old western with the good guys in white and and the baddies in black. There’s a hell of a lot of grey in history, with the victors justifying their atrocities as necessary and painting their vanquished foes acts as war crimes. Some people on here appear to have got their history lessons direct from Elstree studio and Commando comics  

It's interesting in the VE speech Churchill mentions the 'military might' of the Soviet Union before the Americans.  VE Day being just before the Americans settled it dropping the bomb in Japan.  Seems the main protagonists in all of it would have been considered a bunch of bastards at other points in history.  Churchill a dubious character, Stalin a brutal dictator and Truman the only guy to use an atomic weapon - is probably just as well Hitler was an absolute bam with a stupid moustache.

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1 hour ago, Shropshire_killie said:

Bollox re flags. I have me Saltire out on occasion and on me bass cab.20200510_161310.jpg.80302c1c6db68451efcd549f37f17d58.jpgnice bass speaker

 

Edited by Bonbon19

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6 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

You mean like an old western where the cowboys are the good guys and the Indians are the bad guys ? I'm not defending the atrocities that were committed by both sides in WW2. Are you saying that the people who fought and died fighting fascism in Spain and in WW2 were wrong ?  The empire builders were the ones that wanted to appease Hitler to preserve their little bit of red on the map, they didn't want to fight him and potentially lose everything. 

Reducing the Spanish civil war and WWII by describing them as fights against Fascism, may make them easier to understand and make for better stories, but it downplays the multiple facets that contributed to the big picture.

4 hours ago, Bonbon19 said:

Agree with this except the flag pole comment . It shows the houses to be avoided at new year . 

I have a similar system but use 4x4’s in the driveway. If there’s a Range Rover, Audi, BMW or Mercedes Jeep in the drive, just walk on by. 

3 hours ago, Fankle said:

While I agree that the British Empire was guilty of atrocities, the lack of a plan to systematically exterminate millions of their own citizens probably gave them a slight moral advantage.

 

Moral advantage? Is that like the genocide version of away goals rule in football? You need to kill two foreign natives to equal one home citizen?

3 hours ago, RAG said:

It's interesting in the VE speech Churchill mentions the 'military might' of the Soviet Union before the Americans.  VE Day being just before the Americans settled it dropping the bomb in Japan.  Seems the main protagonists in all of it would have been considered a bunch of bastards at other points in history.  Churchill a dubious character, Stalin a brutal dictator and Truman the only guy to use an atomic weapon - is probably just as well Hitler was an absolute bam with a stupid moustache.

When you break it down, it didn’t matter who lost.There was enough dirt on each of them to paint them as the bad guy. I suppose Stalin is the epitome of this. A heroic figure right up until Germany signs its surrender, then he gets to play the bad guy.

Edited by Zorro

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2 hours ago, Shropshire_killie said:

Had a Trace Elliot combo but nearly ruptured meself carting it about :)

Used to have a mobile disco back in the day  . The bass  was a 5foot x 3 foot Marshall with 3 x 12 inch speakers which had sandbags which I thought was to prevent it toppling over but my nerdy mate said it improved the acoustics :) 

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1 hour ago, Bonbon19 said:

Used to have a mobile disco back in the day  . The bass  was a 5foot x 3 foot Marshall with 3 x 12 inch speakers which had sandbags which I thought was to prevent it toppling over but my nerdy mate said it improved the acoustics :) 

Our drummer puts stuff in his bass now n then drum! Same reason.:)

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