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VE day

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2 hours ago, Zorro said:

Reducing the Spanish civil war and WWII by describing them as fights against Fascism, may make them easier to understand and make for better stories, but it downplays the multiple facets that contributed to the big picture. 

The bottom line is would you have fought against Hitler and what he stood for ? Nobody wants war, but sometimes you can't avoid it. 

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10 minutes ago, Wrangodog said:

The bottom line is would you have fought against Hitler and what he stood for ? Nobody wants war, but sometimes you can't avoid it. 

That’s nowhere near the bottom line. The bottom line is you’re ok with atrocities being committed as long as you can placate yourself with the notion they were necessary to win against a perceived greater evil. That’s the same mindset as Hitler. 
Being critical of our own historic atrocities should be what separates us from these madmen. 

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10 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

The bottom line is would you have fought against Hitler and what he stood for ? Nobody wants war, but sometimes you can't avoid it. 

Literally noone suggested anyone not fighting hitler, apart from our resident labourite  who threw vile accusations around before disappearing fir 2 days.

What many of us disagree with is the celebration and its political use.  It's been 75 years and unless the govt are going to properly respect the generation  who gave so much bu making sure they are cared for properly now than the govt can ram the fake celebration up their poo chute.

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10 hours ago, Zorro said:

That’s nowhere near the bottom line. The bottom line is you’re ok with atrocities being committed as long as you can placate yourself with the notion they were necessary to win against a perceived greater evil. That’s the same mindset as Hitler. 
Being critical of our own historic atrocities should be what separates us from these madmen. 

So how would you have stopped Hitler without fighting fascism  ? 

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28 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

Literally noone suggested anyone not fighting hitler, apart from our resident labourite  who threw vile accusations around before disappearing fir 2 days.

What many of us disagree with is the celebration and its political use.  It's been 75 years and unless the govt are going to properly respect the generation  who gave so much bu making sure they are cared for properly now than the govt can ram the fake celebration up their poo chute.

Yes, I am against the glorification, we have 11th November to remember the war dead. 

I vote SNP and this current UK government makes it more likely that more people will vote SNP too. However, at times there is underlying racism in some of the posts on here and on other social media sites. 

Edited by Wrangodog

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11 minutes ago, Wrangodog said:

Yes, I am against the glorification, we have 11th November to remember the war dead. 

I vote SNP and this current UK government makes it more likely that more people will vote SNP too. However, at times there is underlying racism in some of the posts on here and on other social media sites. 

Dont deny it, much of it on here comes from one direction, and the self racism on here is something to behold.

I have no issues with those people in the rUK, their hopes, dreams and wishes will often be similar to mine.  But I will never understand how this equates on some peoples minds to being a reason for our nation to be ruled by another.  No matter how many people scream were all the same, we aren't.   England is England and Scotland is Scotland,  as a nation we have diverged politically so much,  that the were all the same argument simply isnt true.

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17 hours ago, Fankle said:

Indeed...

4EE43B93-E22F-403D-8C12-57C99C7593E3.jpe

 

Indeed... how embarrassing is it "the greatest generation" are treated like a complete liability when they're alive, left to fend for themselves, shivering alone in their homes and shoved away into care homes when their burden becomes too heavy ...and then toasted with tea and cake when they're dead?

Respect the dead by treating the living with care and respect.

Edited by Scooter

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I see that the Swedish government has apologised for not taking care of their older generation. 
 

I wonder when the U.K. governments will do likewise ? 

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1 hour ago, Wrangodog said:

So how would you have stopped Hitler without fighting fascism  ? 

If you think there’s enough justification to fight him, you fight him. You shouldn’t need to rewrite history to justify your actions. We weren’t fighting fascism, as many in the British upper classes were sympathetic towards this ideology. We weren’t fighting due to the atrocities of the holocaust because that didn’t begin until 1941. We went to war because Germany invaded Poland to expand their empire. When your own troops control half the countries on the globe and your flag flies over all these conquered countries, this might seem hypocritical to some. I’m comfortable with it though. 

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It’s simply unbelievable that some on here are comparing the British in WW11 with the Nazis. I really haves  underestimated the level of hate. Maybe the SNP leadership weren’t so far out of line, after all, wanting to collaborate with Hitler. I wish these views were known more widely in Scotland. I think most ordinary Scots would be taken aback. A new low for @Beaker71 comparing Brexit with the Nazis, much though I despise Brexit. 

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On 5/10/2020 at 1:41 PM, Beaker71 said:

Absolute horses**t and evasion as usual from you.  You throw horrible accusations around like confetti and squeal like a stuck pig if someone calls you a name.

You're a bitter bitter individual, and cannot see that all wars are fought largely by innocent people lied to and made to performs acts of bravery, and butchery alike by the real evil.  The elite and power hungry sho would never put themselves in harm's way.

Hitler did what all evil leaders and despots do, sow fear and pick on one or two groups to blame for the issues, use media and propaganda to fan the flames of that fear.  Perform little acts of evil which grow bit by bit and reduces the ordinary peoples intolerance to such acts.  But then you cannot see that the empire and british elite are doing it just now with Brexit (minus the mass genocide of course but then we do have mass crime against the poor going on) you dont agree with that but so support the continuation ad infinitum of the elite who are perpetrating.

I don’t support Brexit. It will make people poorer. I don’t support Independence. It will make people poorer. It’s called consistency. You and the Brexiteers are two cheeks of the same arse. Identical language. 

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4 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

I don’t support Brexit. It will make people poorer. I don’t support Independence. It will make people poorer. 

I agree both will make people poorer but while one is about trying to revive "The Empire" I can see leaving the "British State" behind as a blow against that.

You are 100% right some Nats did flirt with the idea of making common cause with the Nazis as did a number of high profile members of the British State. I don't think you can make the Nats out to be any more sympathetic to the Nazis than the British establishment were.

The Nazis as the focus of evil in the modern world was a narrative constructed after the fact to help people feel the sacrifices their families had made was justified. In saying this I am by no means an apologist, they were a really nasty lot but that was not the principal reason the British Establishment went to war with the Germans in the first place.

 

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11 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

I agree both will make people poorer but while one is about trying to revive "The Empire" I can see leaving the "British State" behind as a blow against that.

You are 100% right some Nats did flirt with the idea of making common cause with the Nazis as did a number of high profile members of the British State. I don't think you can make the Nats out to be any more sympathetic to the Nazis than the British establishment were.

The Nazis as the focus of evil in the modern world was a narrative constructed after the fact to help people feel the sacrifices their families had made was justified. In saying this I am by no means an apologist, they were a really nasty lot but that was not the principal reason the British Establishment went to war with the Germans in the first place.

 

Quite right gdevoy. Look at the Blackshirts down here and what would have happened if Brirain invaded. Mosley's Nazis etc

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32 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

It’s simply unbelievable that some on here are comparing the British in WW11 with the Nazis. I really haves  underestimated the level of hate. Maybe the SNP leadership weren’t so far out of line, after all, wanting to collaborate with Hitler. I wish these views were known more widely in Scotland. I think most ordinary Scots would be taken aback. A new low for @Beaker71 comparing Brexit with the Nazis, much though I despise Brexit. 

I’m surprised a British Nationalist like yourself, hasn’t taken a greater interest in British history. It must be true about what they say about ignorance being bliss. 

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13 minutes ago, Zorro said:

I’m surprised a British Nationalist like yourself, hasn’t taken a greater interest in British history. It must be true about what they say about ignorance being bliss. 

Would be true if I was a British Nationalist. Hope your keeping well. 

Edited by Mclean07

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1 hour ago, Mclean07 said:

It’s simply unbelievable that some on here are comparing the British in WW11 with the Nazis. I really haves  underestimated the level of hate. Maybe the SNP leadership weren’t so far out of line, after all, wanting to collaborate with Hitler. I wish these views were known more widely in Scotland. I think most ordinary Scots would be taken aback. A new low for @Beaker71 comparing Brexit with the Nazis, much though I despise Brexit. 

Again you simply dont get it, and rrvert to type and ignore historical facts to suit your own rule Britannia, British is best narrative while telling us Scots thay we have superiority syndrome.

Hypocritical is an understatement.  Mind you I suppose.any belief in Scotland to manage it's own affairs is a superiority complex given the amount of seething self loathing you have for your own nation.

Nobody on here has said the allies and germans in WWII were the same, were telling you that atrocities were committed on both sides and that an overtly political.celenration 75 years after the event if VE day is no longer appropriate, especially given the treatment handed to that specific generation by the UK govt.  You really do need to read posts and stop with the UK OK knee jerk reaction.

Edited by Beaker71

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1 hour ago, Mclean07 said:

Would be true if I was a British Nationalist. Hope your keeping well. 

I’m keeping very well, I hope you’re the same. Did you get the issues with your mums care sorted?

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12 hours ago, Zorro said:

I’m keeping very well, I hope you’re the same. Did you get the issues with your mums care sorted?

I did, thank you. 

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5 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

A final word.....

89BFBDF9-8B75-4596-BAE9-CDF08E948595.jpeg.c1f3510bceb3e896df331d22d653c52b.jpeg

Clearly never met half the working class population of England.

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When English fans sing “two World Wars and one World Cup” is it to celebrate their victories over Germany or an acknowledgment that they needed a huge helping hand in all three?

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England did win the war and to suggest anything else is unpatriotic.Us Scots and the rest of the then Empire who contributed were mearly giving a small hand .After all they armed us and commanded us .That the history of the war taught in England 

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On 5/11/2020 at 11:33 AM, Zorro said:

If you think there’s enough justification to fight him, you fight him. You shouldn’t need to rewrite history to justify your actions. We weren’t fighting fascism, as many in the British upper classes were sympathetic towards this ideology. We weren’t fighting due to the atrocities of the holocaust because that didn’t begin until 1941. We went to war because Germany invaded Poland to expand their empire. When your own troops control half the countries on the globe and your flag flies over all these conquered countries, this might seem hypocritical to some. I’m comfortable with it though. 

I think I said this  too but nobody was listening. The UK went to war to protect the Empire.  We  lost the Empire but made a virtue out if it by claiming credit for fighting facism and the holocaust. 

I do believe in fighting for something that is important. But nobody asked people in the UK to fight, They were conscripted. Fight or we shoot you.

Then the biggest hero of the war, Alan Turin committed suicide because he was gay and that didnt fit with the narrative.

The back slapping and flag waving is nauseous but predictable.

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